As some of you may have noticed, my elderly Dad does a good job of annoying me a lot of the time! I shouldn't let it get to me and should be more firm with him. But I was thinking about what does wind me up and wonder whether you all think my approach is right with what I expect etc from elderly person.
1. If you can do it yourself or help yourself then do it. Don't expect others to help because you can't be bothered.
2. Help others to help you and be a little bit flexible. Don't be stubborn and want things all your own way especially when others are sorting things out to make everyones life easier.
3. Appreciate that family have other responsibilities and not just you. You don't have a right to unlimited time.
Sadly, my Dad fails badly on all three of these.....
If he can get someone to do something for him he just won't bother himself (in fact, I think he likes having someone run around for him). He is totally inflexible and won't listen to anyone its his way or not at all - in the past hes expected me to travel 2 hours to pick him up to take him to appointment rather than pay for a £10 taxi. Worse of all - he does not care about what I've got on, issues/responsibilities I have for my own family - and has said he expects to be put first.
Am I being unfair on him?
/rant over
I'm the same. I'd do anything for Dad but I dislike being lied to and led on wild goose chases. I also dislike that he lays on the pressure and wish he would just chill out a bit.
Sure I've said before I do "on call". Its 24 hrs so I could be called anytime. Means having to spend anything from an hour remotely to many hours in the office.
Dad just does not get it. Can't understand how I can for "forced to go to work in the middle of night when you're not down for that shift". My Dad worked in a factory all his life, you had you're shifts, you clocked in at start time and clocked out at exact end time I suppose.
So of course, when I plan to visit sometimes I say "Dad remember I'm on call". Might as well tell me cat. A few times now I've had to call him and cancel and you'd have though the world had come to an end.
Once, he insisted I come, even though I'd been up since 3am that I still pop over to see him. That was not nice of him. Don't do that any more.
Paul, don't let your dad get between you and your brother!
As his health truly declines, your dad will need you both.
I encourage you to meet with brother to discuss sharing the errands and giving brother the benefit of your ideas and experiences (and you listen to his) so you are working together and not against one another.
The last thing you want is a true crisis and the two of you at odds with one another.
That also happens frequently.
Its difficult. I live 30+ mins away, he lives 2 mins. I've got kids (inc 5 year old), hes got none. My wife works part-time and has her own health problems, his partner has no job and stays home all day.
He does not understand why I can't jump when Dad wants something.
Most folks, as they get older, see the world only through the lens of their needs, wants and desires.
Your dad DOES sound more narcissistic than the norm, but you're not going to change HIS behavior.
The ONLY thing you have any control over is YOUR behavior. If you've been groomed all your life to give your parent your all, it's a tough pattern to break. Have you done any reaching about "detaching with love" or "setting boundaries with narcissistic parents" ?
Yeh been doing a lot of research. He hits the nail on the head....
In the past, hes been very patronising. I've said "Im taking daughter her because I've been in work all week etc" and he'll say something like "yes yes Im fine, you go and take her" as if I somehow have to run my plans past him.
Then again, xmas time hes been known to say "there'll be other xmases for you to spend time with your kids" when I say I can't commit to something on xmas day with him.
Don't be angry with your brother and fSIL - I expect they hear just as much unreasonable, passive-aggressive whingeing as you do and no doubt they were trying to help in their way. It's hardly surprising they didn't get any further forward than you have, and it's no more so that as comparative novices they rushed in with a brilliant idea and then - oops - found it wasn't that brilliant after all.
The person responsible for your father's care, at this point, is your father. There are many solutions and options available to him. If he will not accept them, that is his problem, not yours, not your brother's, and most certainly not your fSIL's. Detach.
I can easily check what he gets though in terms of DLA.
Brother and SIL. Hmm? They approach it differently. They mollycoddle him because they've got lots of spare time then lie to him when it suits them. Mollycoddling does him more harm than good sometimes - the saying "The more help you give him, the more helpless he gets" rings true.
But yes I do now sometimes offer solutions/thing I can do to help and then leave it with him. In the past hes said things like "Don't worry then I'll manage" and I've jumped, now I just say "Ok then".
You can't claim Carer's Allowance if your take-home pay is more than £120 a week, and you have to commit to 35 hours per week actually caring - five hours a day in his home. Really?
What exactly have they offered your Dad?
Is this her second marriage too, and if so does she have kids?
Shortcut - here are the rules:
Eligibility
The person you care for
The person you care for must already get one of these benefits:
Personal Independence Payment - daily living component
Disability Living Allowance - the middle or highest care rate
Attendance Allowance
Constant Attendance Allowance at or above the normal maximum rate with an Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit
Constant Attendance Allowance at the basic (full day) rate with a War Disablement Pension
Armed Forces Independence Payment
Your eligibility
You must earn no more than £120 a week after tax and expenses. Expenses can include:
50% of your pension contributions
some of the costs of caring for your children or the disabled person while you’re at work
All of the following must also apply:
you’re 16 or over
you spend at least 35 hours a week caring for someone
you’ve been in England, Scotland or Wales for at least 2 of the last 3 years (this does not apply if you’re a refugee or have humanitarian protection status)
you normally live in England, Scotland or Wales, or you live abroad as a member of the armed forces
you’re not in full-time education
you’re not studying for 21 hours a week or more
you’re not subject to immigration control
You might still be eligible if you’re moving to or already living in another EEA country or Switzerland.
You might be eligible for Carer’s Credit if you’re not eligible for Carer’s Allowance.
Its DLA the Dad gets I discovered. BUT, its taken another turn...
The pair of idiots who have now backed out of the whole idea. Spoke to Dad last night. Absolutely furious. They'd told him the other day they were going to do it, he was really pleased, yesterday they made some b@llshit excuse why she can't do it after all!
Strangely, shortly after (about an hour by the sounds of things!) I pointed out info above that CM has kindly confirmed here!
I think she expected two visits a week to do his shopping and several £100s easy money...
Absolutely fuming with both of them. Why on earth come up with stupid ar@e ideas, tell Dad and then back out?
One plus though. Dad did say "yes but even if she can't do it full time, and get money for it, she has said shes got plenty of spare time anyway these days because shes not got much work on. So I asked her if she wouldn't mind helping out more anyway since shes got the time".
Cheered me up a bit. :-) Backfired a little shall we say....
Not sure about carers allowance. Quick google this am and I've found out he does need to be claiming a thing called PIP - which he does. So think he could claim it for a carer.
But it seems carers allowance is £65 ($85) a week and its for 35 hours of care minimum. I think brother and SIL were thinking it'd be a nice little earner to be honest- few £100 a week for a couple of visits a week.
Of course, it would have been wise of them to find this out BEFORE telling him the plan....
But oh yes I dont think she realises what shes got herself into. Never a truer word spoken - he will decline rapidly because he just can't be bothered and will have someone to do it for him.
Its a disaster waiting to happen. She'll do it for a few months, get sick of him and give up. By this time, he'll have descended into complete helplessness and/or be quite keen on being mollycoddled and will expect someone else i.e me to continue the good work.
Same as you, I'm not keen on the stuff he can't be bothered to do, or stuff that could be done easier but he wants it done his way. I've got other committments in my life.
Brother contacted me. Hes spoken to my Dad and his (soon to be) wife is going to be Dad carer. (She doesn't really have a job).
Worlds stupidest idea if you ask me. Dad doesn't need a carer, he just needs to listen to what people tell him, be a little more flexible, and make an effort.
Of course, my SIL is hoping to get money for this. (Not sure how it'd work whether she could claim carers allowance or something?)
What I KNOW will happen now is he will get even worse. He will now do NOTHING for himself AT ALL. Dad listen to his own hype - if he needs a carer he must be ill. He will get worse and worse. She will turn him into a helpless man-baby.
Of course, lets me off the hook a little but I don't think they've thought this through. I can tell you now that when SIL is on holidays hes going to expect me to fill in as replacement "carer". Not happening.
In all honestly, Dad health is very good for his age. He can walk (with a stick) about half a mile. Not bad for 84. Hes just more interested in making no effort at all. Hes my Dad but I find it a little pathetic to be honest.
But what can I do? They've already offered so hes well up for the idea.....
Honestly, I'm keeping out of it. Washing my hands of it all.
While this may give you some temporary relief I can see this blowing up too. I also had a well meaning aunt who decided my father's apartment was not clean enough on one of her visits and sent her son to take my father to lunch while she cleaned. Then gave me the stink eye as the daughter for not doing this. Different generation. She never had to work to support herself while I have always been the main bread winner. She doesn't comprehend me not having the time to manage someone else's life. I have no issues helping my father with things he CAN'T do, but I refuse to help with things he doesn't feel like doing. My famous line was 'the more I help him, the more helpless he gets".
For some reason that generation loves to be 'fussed' over. I can't wait to hear the updates on this.
It is totally OK to say NO. Sometimes I feel bad saying it but I know that if I do one little nicety for him he will expect 100x more. Boundaries are a life saver. I broke one of my boundaries at Christmas. I aided my father in the bathroom ...twice. Saying I am scarred for life doesn't nearly come close. Now I know that was the last time I can bring him to my home for a holiday. Understand it is not wrong to put yourself first from time to time. Start being unavailable.
Yeh pretty good. Dad was OK. Not as bad as previous years and Xmas day was good (with Dad not there!)
So you need better boundaries and Dad wants your time and attention. What to do? Self-care first is always my go to strategy. The more you can shift your perspective and see Dad like a two year old seeking attention, that might help to feel more compassion towards him. It wont get any easier as he gets older, colder and lonelier. You can't change him. Save yourself and your family. Set hard boundaries if you need to. It will be painful to keep. Best of luck! Sorry, no easy answers.
I can tell you’re extremely frustrated and wish him to be different but he can’t be. Accept who he is by losing the surprise every time he has inappropriate behavior with his boundaries. Talk with a counselor and read Chavetz's book and also a good one by Henry Cloud on boundaries.
You don't have to answer his phone calls or call him every day. Figure out what you can or are willing to do and that is it. Spend one Saturday a month with him taking care of whatever he wants rather than ruining every weekend with smaller trips. Only call once a week and at a set time. No dropping everything to tend to one of his 'wants'....you can take care of it on your monthly visit. If he gets nasty give him a warning. If he doesn't listen cut that monthly visit short and leave. Baby steps to taking your life back and giving yourself peace. Sure he will get the upper hand on occasion but it will get better.
People tend to forget that they are and ADULT now and it is OK to say NO to your parent. World will not end no matter how they react.
Stop trying to appease him. If he makes some PA comment agree with him and move on. If he says "well it looks like I will be all alone on the holiday" reply with "yes it does look that way, how about that weather we are having!". If he makes comments about how you live your life try to ignore. If you can't, ask him what makes him think he gets a say in how you live your life. Or remind him that his opinion on this subject does not matter. If he says because he is your father remind him that only works if you are under 18, not 50.
Your father isn't going to change. Take a break from him and figure out how you want to move forward. Get over the guilt of 'leaving him alone'. Most people like this are alone because they have driven people away. That is not your fault. My grandmother used to say people didn't want you when you were old and grey. The reality was that people didn't want to be around her because she was miserable and nasty. But those are things she could have done something about. It is easier to blame something she could not change like being old.
I wish you luck.
You seem to want your dad to figure out that he is being a bully and he will never acknowledge it. So do what YOU WANT.
If you are so on edge from having dealt with him lately - take a break. Go no contact for awhile.
But do what YOU want, and stop being angry with your dad for being like he is.
About 15 years ago I started setting boundaries with my mom - who of course raised holy hell about it. We went no contact several times for about six months at a time. NOW I have a good relationship with her because she knows what will happen if she doesn't respect my boundaries.
now am working on boundaries with my sister - who is a manipulative bully. Take the emotion out of it and the wishes out of it. What will you accept / not accept? What will you do? when my boundaries are pushed - I firmly say "NO" and if they get to badger or bully I exit, physically or hang up phone. "I'm sorry, I won't let you speak with me that way. I love you. Good bye" and repeat, repeat, repeat.
Good luck
You are a big boy, you don't need anyone telling you it's okay to completely ignore your dad because his behavior is more than you can deal with.
Block his number and you won't have to get all pizzy because he's calling you. You won't even know he has made the call.
I have no plans to ditch him. However, I have no plans to ditch my wife and kids either.
As we left, the one who was staying for an extra day asked if we would text her when we landed so she'd know that we arrived safely in NY.
It's actually an expression of caring in most people, not of control.
I understand that with parents, it's sometime hard to sort what is what. And your dad does sound terribly annoying. But might I suggest that your reactions suggest to me that you might be tremendously helped by some counseling sessions.
Its difficult to explain how he is in words but honestly.... Its EVERYTHING I do pretty much. Work, kids, holidays, Dad will comment and then TELL me what to do. He even says things like "No you can't do that" or "OK yes you can do that".
Of course, I ignore him but he has gone and done things like this and said the same to my wife which doesn't go down well.
Paul, I think you are becoming allergic to your father. The man can't voice an opinion without your feeling that he is borderline abusive.
He can't prevent a 48 year old man from getting alcohol poisoning in Prague if he likes it. And he can't force you to phone him, or choose your lunch menu for you, or hide the dessert trolley.
He can't do anything to you, in fact, can he. Neither can he do anything to ensure that you and your brother are safe and prospering. Not a thing. Perhaps it would be better for him if he didn't care, and did not exhibit all this control-freakery, but instead he drones on and on about it and gets up your nose.
What do you *want* him to do?
I took him away for the weekend last year. He was awful. It ranged from "you can't have a drink you're driving" (I had one pint which is fine), to "why do you want to pay that much for a sandwich", to "you don't need desert". He was constantly on my back.
Brother is getting married in the summer. Dad has hassled him about 50 times to NOT go away for the weekend for a stag night. (Brother is 48). He does the emotional blackmail - he'll be worried sick about him.
Saying that he does that to me if I go on holiday to Florida. I get "phone me when you land or I'll be worried sick something has happened to you". I refuse to do so - tell him watch the news to see if theres been a plane crash! lol. Its all about control with him and being in charge.
Also can guarantee the days before I go away his health will get worse. Without fail. One year he is going to lay it on so thick and try and get me not to go - I know it. I will ignore him.
If not, I highly recommend that you sit down with your calendar and your wife and children's calendar and figure out a day monthly that you can give just to him.
Then you can say, dad when I am there on --- we will take care of that. If you need it sooner here are the options.
My dad played the heavy handed, I'm more important than anyone else. He even told my husband, if we could get rid of Ray we would be okay. Ray being my husband.
One time he was told to not contact me for a week, he thought he would be in charge and call because he needed something, I knew he was all stocked up before he was told no contact. He was sucking the life out of me. So it ended up being about 2 weeks because every time he called it added a day to the no contact. I didn't answer the phone, I let him leave messages and I didn't call back. He finally got that I have a life and you can be part of it, with boundaries, no boundaries, no part. It is hard to stand up to our parents but we are not little kids and they stopped being in control when we started paying our own bills.
Let us know how your regularly scheduled visits and strong boundaries help.
Being on call in work sometimes doesn't help and he doesnt get. Sometimes I'm up working all night and he still expects me there because I planned to be.
Oh yes nothing would please Dad more than if I was single Im sure!
I’m sorry if I’m too blunt or offended you, sometimes I can get that way, especially regarding something that I personally couldn’t tolerate. I guess I’m just asking for you to Please think of Her as your #1 responsibility in your dealings with him. When he’s on the phone demanding something, take a breath, picture your wife’s pretty face instead and react how she would want. Maybe that image will help. Just a thought and good luck.
Believe me I have changed a lot. I do understand and now I don't let him do what he used to do. He still tries though of course.
Xmas day is now off the cards. He was getting so bad and two years ago he was awful and spoilt it for everyone. Wife is a nurse and I just tell him shes working - I can't bring myself to sit him down and say "Dad - you're behaviour is bad you're not invited".
Then again for years hes expected me to drive to pick him up (30mins or so away), bring him to my house, then take him home later. Big part of the day - and then he'd try and dictate what time I picked him up. When I said let me see kids open presents and then I'll be there his answer was always "there'll be other xmases for the kids"
I can't argue that, at times, he is a complete a@sehole I get that. But hes my Dad and I can't cut him loose completely. In all honesty, I dont think he realises how bad he is.
Thing that winds my wife up most is his treatment of the kids. He really is not interested at all. Ignores them, hardly speaks to them. He has no relationship really with either of them. I know its because if I visit him with the kids (usually my youngest) it means he doesn't have my 100% attention. Hes even said in the past "what did you bring her for?" (about my youngest).
Look, you're not being unfair to him. You are being unfair to yourself in that you are expecting your father to behave like someone he is not.
At the moment, you are feeling frustrated and put upon because he isn't stoical, considerate, self-sufficient as far as possible and grateful for everything else. If he suddenly started being all of those things... would you even recognise him?
Also, I have to say: apple - tree. Your father has a wide range of options and possibilities that he doesn't follow up, for whatever reason; and then he complains about how much pain he's in and how difficult everything is. Hmmm.
These are the rules:
He can say what he likes, you decide what you do.
He can do what he likes, you decide what you contribute.
Stop wishing he was different from what he is actually like.
This weekend I said sorry no I can't do that. He then wanted to know exactly what I was doing that made me so busy that weekend. I thought hang on why is it any of you're business?
I know what you mean - I do let it get to me. It wears me down all the time having to argue/make excuses with him. It wears me down and frustrates me that I could make things easier for him.
But I'm getting better honestly!
Before getting to the point, I like to point out that age cannot be blamed on problems. More often than not, it is bad, unhealthful habits that eventually catches up to people. Treat yourself right when you are younger, including things you hate, like proper exercise, proper eating with junk in very moderation, rare small drinking or none at all and never smoke do things to keep the brain sharp, be good about medical help when need it and follow through, etc., then you can be independent when you are elder. Also, deciding to slow down after a certain age certainly does not help. You all the more need activity when elder, even start by chair exercises. Gotta keep mobile to keep from getting immobile. Also, think young to treat yourself better. I have a very independent almost 93 year-old great-aunt. She has a couple things going on, but she beats her stuff instead of her stuff beating her. If there is one advice I can tell young folks, your life's goal should be caring for yourself the right way now so, unless something freak happens, you can live freely when you are elder. Save something every month, so when you get elder, not everything falls on the kids; instead, they can check in on you, but still live their lives. After all, you wanted to live yours, right? Taking care of kids is way different than caring for parents.
Onto the point now, I totally get it. My mother, if she was living with me, and on top of it, I got my own baby ( a mid-teen), my mother and I can be alright over the phone sometimes, but in person, in five minutes already something to pick at me about. She is miserable about her life, and because I'm smaller than her, I guess, easier to take it out on me because I cannot stand up to her. Some of her relatives think I'm wrong for her not living with me, a couple of them, they totally understand. Besides, I am a mom myself, and it's a struggle to care for myself. The fact you have family, your spouse and kids comes first. The three reasons, along with parents who had abused their kids, are reasons many kids do not be primary caregivers, and also knowing, if they take that responsibility, they are not likely to get any help, even if they get sick and bedridden themselves. Being elder does not make one entitled, and having kids make no one entitled, even if 100 years old. If you are elder, if you can do something yourself, be glad you can, and be an example to young ones by them seeing that you do what you can, even if you hate it or don't feel like it. As for having kids, it does not guarantee they can one day give up working, don't have their own spouses and kids to care for when something happens. As for nursing homes, kids placing a parent in a nursing home in itself is not wrong if they need to. If they do not plenty research first or take time to visit to see how things are going is a bad thing. But I do understand if parents were abusive or neglectful, they may not want to be bothered. And if the parents chose not to care for themselves with the best amount of effort, why expect bail out?
I am not saying this to dissuade anyone from being their for their parents and care for them if they can. But, I believe that parents should not hold it against their kids if they feel they need to put them in a home as long as they are there to check on them often enough. Most people do no want to go to a home, but just like young people always have to do things they hate, being elder does not change that.
Raising kids, until 18 or out of high school, at least with them you can set rules and expect them to follow. Parents will use the fact they are parents to only do want they want and not listen to their kids and not realize it is a much bigger sacrifice to care for them than it is kids.
Maybe you can set up time once a month or so to spend the night or weekend. You can run errands and go out to dinner. Have some Dad time. He is probably lonely and doesn't know how to express it?
Boundries is the word and you set them.
I'm a self employed IT consultant so taking half a day would mean no income for that half day. A £10 taxi is not a waste of money for me - I could pay for 15 taxis the amount of lost income to be honest.
Of course I remember his argument at the time - "but you had a week off to take your kids on holiday the other month so why can't you take half a day for me?".
I know its all about power with him. He does like the power to be able to get people to do things for him. Loves being in hospital because he can boss the nurses around (its scary to watch and I dont know how they put up with him).
Its been a struggle over the years getting his bathroom modified and getting a stair lift fitted. Both of which he can't do without now.
In the UK, you can get a grant which pays for most of the work but you still have to pay something towards it. He had a bath which he couldn't get in - so I arranged a grant for a bathroom refit. He fought tooth and nail for months refusing to agree because he didn't want to spend any money (I think it was £200 - which is about 0.5% of his savings). During this time he didnt have a bath or shower - the smell was bad!
Same with the stairlift. He planned to crawl up the stairs on his hands and knees rather than pay out again. Only when I told him if he fell down the stairs I was going to leave him in hospital did he give in.
Again, £200 he paid. Stairlift cost something like £8000 which the government paid for. He even moaned and said "how on earth can a stairlift cost £200?".
Its sad really because its caused a lot of bad feeling when there was no need. I was quite happy to help him out where I could but he pushed it too far.
I'm sure I've said on here before there were one or two defining moments where his behaviour, quite frankly, has been awful and hes really treated me like complete cr@p and had no consideration for me, my health, my family or my kids. It crossed the line from being just a PITA having to do things for him to him being blatantly selfish and rude to my family.
Of course, in his head, hes done nothing wrong. My wife won't bother with him these days (can't blame her to be honest). Probably the worse thing (in my wifes eyes too) is the fact that he is completely uninterested in his grandchildren - in fact, has been quite rude about them because he sees them as a "hindrance".