Should Dad's live-in caregiver/tenant be allowed to bring people over?

Are you kidding? Get another caregiver. First, it is your house. Second, WITH COVID??? Third, she is not 24/7. Fourth, why? Wouldn’t it be distracting from her job???

I skimmed through your previous posts. In several, you mentioned that you had applied for Medicaid for him. This was in 2018. What was the outcome?

You were also investigating different types of facilities for him in previous posts. Whatever became of that?

If your CG thinks it's fine to bring her friends/family over, just how well do you think she's observing covid safety protocols when she is not in your house? (This is aside from the issue of how you can restrict her visitors when she has a rental agreement with you -- unless such agreement stipulates no visitors.)

Sounds like you are doing things this way (live-in CG plus another CG) in order to save money. So tell us -- ARE you having taxes withheld from the CG paychecks? Please consult an elder attorney.

Aid that cares for one of our 55+ residents 24/7 is employed by a service company and is not allowed visitors per company policy. As long as she is in the home she is considered to be at work. She gets relieved to go see friends or spend a week, weekend away. I would absolutely not be comfortable in allowing this in my LO's home, you can't be too careful these days in multiple regards. As someone else pointed out, were she to be employed in a skilled care facility, memory care, assisted living, whatever, I seriously doubt she could have visitors except for a brief moment.

Absolutely not. You need to strongly consider replacing her. You never know what a person will do in a situation like this after you tell them no. You need to install a camera system-at the very least- with you out of state, it would be a great idea if you could have someone from the agency stop by 2-3 times per week for a wellness check.

My mom has been so angry about being stuck at her apartment. I brought this covid situation up with her doctor and my mom present. Doctor said no outing unless good is needed. We get her groceries delivered.

Take the situation to your dad's physician. Try and get dad vaccinated and insist his caregiver get her vaccines.
No, she's exposing dad to people you know nothing about or how they live, who they are exposed to and where they go.

She can be replaced but for next one a contract is needed with all expectations in writing.

It isn't unreasonable, but if this "live in caregiver" is expected to be with your father 24/7 then it must be recognized that she will need time away to see friends and family. You will otherwise lose your caregiver entirely. This coming and going opens your elder to infection so I would attempt vaccination ASAP. Even then it is perhaps unwise to have a lot of coming and going from the home. It looks like you will need a "relief" caregiver, and it's one more payment to make. Then the caregiver can exit the home periodically to see friends and family.
I am assuming there is no way, say and upstairs and downstairs in this home for separation and airing out.

Firstly you may want to bring her to leave in the same city... my sister and lived in the same city and it was still challenging.......we had to change our moms caregiver a couple of times, because if similar circumstances. Both my sister and I worked, but were able to check on her daily, most importantly, you need an army to help check on her. I believe it’s harder for you that is living in a different state, but you need that piece of mind. Change her provider, and make things clear, from the beginning. May God bless you.

Consult an attorney on how to legally pay this caregiver and to establish her rights as a tenant on the property. needs legal advice on this situation. You need legal advice not opinions on a public forum.

Covid adds another confusing factor to the situation.

U made the correct decision- stand firm ..

Reinforce the "work" relationship since this person is not 24/7 on duty. The caregiver should pursue her social life and her family life on her own time in her own home. Stress that you are paying to only provide care for dad and safeguard his health in his home.

I agree with trying to move your dad to the same state - unfortunately if your father is on Medicaid- we found that the facility makes it near impossible to get a person moved - IMO they have guaranteed income and will find a way to keep the person at their facility 😢

You can require that all caregivers and their guests have vaccinations. And you can ask for proof of it with a scan of her vaccination card. You can also require mask wearing and regular covid-19 testing. You also can set policy regarding visitors. If she has visitors, it may put your other caregivers and your Dad in an uncomfortable and even dangerous position. Think carefully about this. But be prepared for her to leave if she does not want to follow this policy. I'm assuming you have POA for your Dad's financial and medical matters. It's always easier to manage someone's care if they are not remote. If possible, have your father moved to a facility in your area. As mentioned below, you may need an attorney to help with this. If there are strangers in the house, be sure that all financial statements are being sent to your address. Lock up all personal information and valuables. Also think about whether you Dad needs to be in his own home. If he is still capable of making decisions, have the discussion with him. Tell him your concerns. Make sure all of his paperwork is in order: Power of Attorneys for medical and financial decisions, living will, will, etc. Check with is bank and financial institutions, they may have their own POA forms. Also be sure you are on file with Medicare and Social Security to be able to speak on his behalf.

You’re right. The caregiver is an employee. She needs to respect your decision and focus on her job. Not to mention the risk she’s putting your family member in, she is not the right person to be a caregiver. I had to go through a few caregivers before I found the right person to care for my mother. She needs to go.

It's not unreasonable to ask that she doesn't allow friends over since your Dad is at risk.

But, since she is also a Tenant there, you could allow her to have her boyfriend over as long as they stay in her bedroom.

Make it clear that her boyfriend is only allowed to be at the house when she is off the clock.

You could request that she waits for your Dad to get his shot.

There have been problems with both vaccines! Do NOT force this on anyone until they know the risks. If they have ever had an allergic reaction to any of the ingredients they should NOT get the vaccine. There have been over 600 deaths and many serious injuries. People with auto immune diseases, Lyme disease, rheumatoid arthritis are NOT good candidates for the vaccine. They risk injury or death.

Remember the COVID vaccine is experimental and administrators should inform you of the risk before giving you one. If you have any issues with the first one, do not get the second one.

Bottom Line - it is your home, your dad and your right to say NO. You are paying for her service to take care of your father and not to entertain or devote time to anyone else. If she continued to protest, I would look for someone else. When you are hired elsewhere in a store, office etc it never includes a plus 1+. Also it would become another liability should they fall or get hurt in your home. You have enough to worry about.

It would be dangerous to have an extra person coming in and out of the house while COVID is still such a risk. It would be similarly dangerous to have the caretaker going out of the house to stay with partner or friends b/c she would be an exposure risk every time she came back in. When the caretaker is out of the house, you have no control over his or her contacts outside.

This is a dilemma. The caretaker is not a machine you can put away until it's time to work again. It would be generous of you to allow even vaccinated guests, but it might be a reasonable solution.

I would love to hear how others deal with this problem of caretakers and other people in and out of the house during COVID.

I just cannot believe the number here that think it is fine to dictate what this caregiver does, when and where and with whom in the hours she is not on the clock. Covid or not!

Think for a moment about caregivers in facilities. Their employers are not limiting or restricting this way. Those facilities Would not have any employees if that were the case. And the state labor board would be in there in no time with a laundry list of employee complaints and legal charges.

In our Governor’s weekly address last Tuesday he said that Ohio would not be mandating Covid vaccine for nursing home employees or residents. Nationwide only 37.7% of nursing home employees have gotten vaccinated.

Is this live-in caregiver paying rent as a tenant or is her living-in part of the payment for her services? Bridger's reply suggests the caregiver is paying rent.

My family had live-in help for my paraplegic mother when I was growing up. The care giver's family could certainly visit and they spent a certain amount of time in our home. We might have limited visits if there had been a pandemic going on, but we did not have to deal with that problem. It seems the risk to an older person if he or she contracted COVID, legitimizes sunbrooke's concern about visitors.

If she lives there it seems she should be able to have trusted friends over, especially when someone else is caring for your dad. If she is a good caregiver and you want to keep her, I would establish clear guidelines that allow certain visitors during her free hours. Just my opinion.

One of the problems is; she is paying rent for her quarters. That is her home. Since she is a renter and you evict her. She might have a case against you. Because the CDC has not lifted the moratorium on evicting people because of COVID. The order is primarily for non payment of rent. But, I bet a good lawyer could make a case for the caregiver. Since she is a renter you have to give her 30 to 60 days notice. Then you may not be able to evict her because of the CDC which is a Federal Agency's ruling. I live in California and you would have a hard time evicting her if she didn't go. Even in good times, you have to follow certain rules to evict people. There is a procedure and if you don't dot all your "I"s and cross all your "T"s, you have to start all over again. That is why I always hired a company that specializes in evictions when I had to do it as a landlord.

NO one should be coming over other than a responsible caregiver. This one does not seem responsible as she is clearly hanging out with other people and she knows your dad is at high risk. She is being irresponsible and needs to be replaced. If she's endangering your father by hanging around with people and bringing them in his house, what else is she doing that is not OK?

Wish I could answer to WorriedinCali but please know that almost everything she says is legally false. I am a Cali lawyer. There are legal ways to structure these two contracts with the rent being withheld. It is not slavery. And there can be rental and employment agreements that prohibit guests from coming over in the time of COVID. In fact, I've drafted my company's policies (we're not back in the office yet) and we expressly forbid anyone from inviting anyone in without prior senior management approval due to COVID.

The job is to care for an elderly, at-risk person, and that requires a level of responsibility both on and off work. This person is at-will and can be terminated, with or without cause. She's also free to get another job (i.e., it's not slavery). I'm not sure why there are people on here that think it's totally OK to endanger someone's life because, Freedom.

Her strong and repeated objections make me even MORE concerned. No, do not change your mind. In fact, I'd be looking for a replacement for your own peace of mind and because if she is this unhappy she may walk out on you. This is her job, and this is a condition of it. Her priority is to your father, not to her guests whatever their relationship. If she is not 24/7 she must have another place she goes...let her go there and do what she wants. PS, I for one, have little faith in the vaccine. I don't think there should be any false sense of security if one gets it and who has it or not. I know someone who had it and then tested positive with no symptoms. There is a great risk in having these outsiders in your father's home. NO. I do not trust this person in my gut. If she has a key she could have a duplicate made. I would be changing dad's locks.

"My dad's caregiver who also lives at his house (she's not 24/7 however) wants to have friends or her partner over whenever she likes."

Please clarify if "whenever she likes" would be ANY time she feels like it or any time she is off the clock?

ANY time I would have an issue with, since that would include working hours. THAT I would stand my ground and say NO to.

Any time when she isn't working, well, you are in a tough spot. As a tenant, she has rights too. Would she go visit the BF and other friends on her time off? She isn't restricted from going out, right? She could get exposed almost anywhere.

The chances for exposure might be higher if many people are parading into your dad's home, but understand that this care-giver can arrange all her friend and BF visiting elsewhere and still bring the virus in. She could pick it up anywhere she goes outside the home, not just from friends or family. She's not restricted to the house, right? Your other care-giver could bring it in anytime too, having picked it up from her family, a friend, another care-giver job she has, shopping, etc. You can't restrict their activity when they're not in your home (or not on the clock), so...

For me, there are too many questions to be answered.

Does she have her own "area", like an in-law suite, or does she get a BR to herself and the run of the house, bathrooms, kitchen, etc? In-law suite I would have less issue with visitors - that would be like your other care-giver, who goes home to another building.

If it is all "shared" space, would she keep visitors to a minimum and stay in her room as much as possible? Or is she having multiple people over, for tea or beer parties?

Would she be having guests whenever she pleases or during down time?

Would she be having multiple people and/or parties in dad's place? THAT should be a big NO, and likely should have been in ANY tenant agreement signed - can't say if it's legal or not, but if you're renting a room, you shouldn't be allowed to have big parties in the house proper, space you are NOT renting!

I would honestly recommend having your "agreements" reviewed by an appropriate attorney, unless one did this prior to the arrangement being signed. Without knowing the details or the laws in your state (or the fed laws), we can't advise other than to suggest having a good review of the agreements. It does sound a bit like maybe violating Fed rules on employment and compensation (over a very low $ amount, you ARE the employer, so you'd be required to deduct and pay Fed/State taxes, FICA, SS, have a Workman's Comp policy, and perhaps provide medical insurance? LEGAL ADVISE you need to seek! THIS could be a bigger issue, should you push this care-giver/tenant too far.

As for having visitors, again, those who work in facilities go home to family, out shopping, everyday activities that can't be avoided. Same as for your secondary care-giver. How does one know what these people or their family/friends are doing during their "off" time? You're not local, so you can't check. The other care-giver isn't there all day, so who knows what goes on in the house during the hours no one else is around? On some level we do need to be trusting, but also maintain some kind of restrictions, like only one visitor, during off-hours, keeping away from dad whenever possible, wearing masks, washing hands, etc. You can ask, but will they comply? How would you know?

Imho, the caregiver who lives at the house, although not 24/7, should not be bringing in guests that may subject your father to the Novel Coronavirus.

This person should consult an attorney and get a caregiver contract put in place, also a lease that legally addresses the tenants right. All of this back and forth on a public forum does nothing concrete. No further comments from me.

I’m a caregiver. It is NOT unreasonable to stipulate no visitors. In fact the caregiver should realize this is a job and you do not have personal visitors on the job. Never. Your dad has a right to hang onto whatever privacy he can. This is a matter of disrespect towards your dad. Even if she’s a rent paying employee she should never impose upon your dad that way. If she needs a social life she can go off grounds for it when she’s off the clock. You shouldn’t be put in this position and I’m sorry you are going through this. The fact that she’s complaining in emails to you is overstepping the boundaries and very unprofessional. It’s best to look for a more responsible caregiver, they are out there.

The fact that she lives there complicates everything.  You're not going to be able to dictate who she can see after hours when she is on her own time.  If she was just coming in to take care of your dad from noon to 8 pm and then leaving, you could say that while she is there her entire focus needs to be your dad and you don't want him exposed to anyone other than her so you're not allowing visitors during the hours she cares for him.  But, I don't know how you can tell someone who lives there that you are quarantining them. ...