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DPOA is required to do actions that are to the benefit of the elder; DPOA must do things that are fiduciary sound & that reasonably enhance the life of the elder.
If dpoa uses their authority to buy a home that the elder cannot afford or places them into debt with a mortgage that is not actuarial sound, that is not allowed. APS can be asked to review the situation and APS can contact police so charges filed and ask the court for a emergency ward of the state action done.
Most posters come onto this site at the point that they as dpoa or as family are now needing to file for LTC Medicaid for thier elderly parent as mom or dad with dementia cannot live on their own, they need care in a facility and the kids need to sell thier widowed parents home. Not buying a new home for a parent with dementia.
Buying a new home for an aging elder with dementia is unusual. Why? Just what’s the backstory on this that it makes sense to do?
Already tried APS and they were a colossal waste of time and just makes you angry. There were two crimes APS investigated: giving Dad her meds, like chemically restraining him; and the financials where all they did was ask her about a $6,000 check she wrote. Her simple answer of "I invested it" was good enough for him. You know they should have realized when he gained 17 lbs his 1st month in the nursing home. But nobody is doing their mandated reporting as required.
Your question is not really clear. Is the POA buying the house for the POA or is the house for the person with dementia?
If the POA is signing for the person with dementia, that power should be in the document. My mom made me her GDPOA several years ago and it was effective immediately. If something happened where Mom needed another residence, I had the power to sign all the paperwork for her.
The short answer is YES, assuming the POA document authorizes it, the POA can do pretty much anything the principal could do - including sell or purchase a home.
Usually the POA sells the principal's home but I can think of two reasons where it might be used to purchase a home:
(1) relocate the principal to a home better suited for their living and care. Say from a two level to a single level with larger bedroom and bath for the principal and a second bedroom and bath for a care giver; or
(2) invest principal's money so it retains long term value and becomes an income stream from rents. Real estate has long been a stable low risk investment and right now rents provide a better return that many other low risk investments like bank accounts, CDs, and bonds.
How about the mental capacity of the to sign loan papers, deeds, etc. The principle was not capable of being left alone anymore due to what she told us was Alzheimer's. Turns out he had Parkinson's which she found out when she took him to the ER for not being able to talk or walk. He had a UTI and was delusional. Six weeks before they signed the paperwork myself and some more of Dad's family took him out to dinner for his birthday and we stopped by the cemetery to visit the family graves. Dad said he wanted to find his brother Johnny's grave and I told Dad he wasn't buried here, he's in Georgia. Dad said no, no, he's buried here. So we just went with it. We looked all over the cemetery for his brother's grave till he finally got tired and gave up. He took his brother's death very hard. He thought he was there with Uncle Johnny when he died but he wasn't. But I didn't see any reason to argue about it.
I guarantee you she was not thinking about my Dad when she wanted to buy that house. She slings drinks at a VFW lounge where she doesn't tell anyone she's married because she tries to get in old people's wills as a beneficiary. Her daughter told us she had two boyfriends since she married Dad again. She tried to get in one man's will and his sister found out about it and confronted the man. She told the man not to do it because she won't even let him go to her house. She told him he didn't even know if she's married. Yep, she was married to my Dad.
We need more background information before we can give appropriate suggestions. Who is this person POA for: ________? Did the POA buy a home for themselves or for the person that they are POA for? Who will be living in the home? Where is the person with dementia currently living? If the person with dementia is living in an AL or NH, are they receiving Medicaid or are they private pay?
The POA was for my Dad (principle) and his wife signed to be his agent with her daughter second. It was a VA Form from the VA Hospital and it was for medical only. They bought the house in both names, both signed. I don't know if she had a financial POA. He bought so they could both live there only he didn't know it was only going to be a couple of months for him. She's been trying to get her hands on a house ever since I met her. But she couldn't qualify for the house by herself and she wanted a no down payment option so the other personal property money of Dad's she could spend before she had to give us part of it. You should hear how mad she was when she was told that when Dad died, his daughters would own 1/2 of the home's equity. That's the other reason she wanted a no money down loan. She has a life estate in the house where she can live there until she dies if she wants. I guess she just has to keep up with the mortgage. But she'll keep the equity as low as possible, I'm sure. As far as insurance goes, I don't know about that and of course have no access to his health/insurance records. Daddy passed on 3/11/18 while he was in a nursing home.
My POA said I could buy and sell for my Mom. When u say "their name" do you mean the person with Dementia or the person they assigned POA to. If the person with Dementia name is on the deed then I see no problem. If the POA is on the deed and used the Dementia persons money, that is fraud and abuse.
If the Dementia person holds the deed and needs Medicaid in the future, the house will be counted as an asset. The problem is once on Medicaid for ur care ur SS and pension go to ur care. No money will be allowed for up keep on the house. So, it will need to be sold for Market value, or someone will need to pay the upkeep that they may never get reimbursed for.
I would recommend you speak to the attorney that drew up the POA papers. Best attorney will be a Probate/ Elder care attorney in The state she lives in.They are specialized in Elder care and that is very important.My mom and I went together years ago to prepare for this stage, we sat down with her attorney and she directed her wishes. She has directed me to have POA for Medical AND POA for Financial purposes, each document serves a specific purpose. We also went to the bank and she put me on her bank account in order for me to be able to pay her bills, as she could no longer manage her bank account.She also laid out exact instructions to be followed if she was unable to live without artificial life support, she answered the questions, not me and it is my responsibility to make sure those orders are followed if neede, this is called a Living Will, or sometimes referred to as DNR, which means Do Not Resuscitate. In addition, she has me on her will as the executrix, again, her wishes are specified. I went to see my moms attorney with some questions I had as I have gone along and he actually told me that he was surprised I had not been asked for proof of my needling to activate the POA for medical, he told me that for it to be officially enforceable that she would have to be deemed ‘unable’ to make decisions on her own by a Doctors statement of such. I did pay for my appointment with him as it is legal to use her money for her needs, this fell into the scope,however, your local commission on aging should offer you access to free legal advice for you if needed, you may check that out.I keep detailed records of every dime I spend of her money, firstly because I am responsible and I want a record so no family could try to say I am taking anything from her, more importantly it is because if she comes to a stage that she needs financial assistance through the state, they is specific criteria that must be meet or it will hurt her ability to get assistance from the state. Any programs she would benefit from are needs that arise beyond her Medicare benefits. Mom has not met criteria yet, but here are some of the things they look at. They will do a 45 day review of her activity. She will not meet criteria if she has given away any assists in that time frame.They look at : does she own a home, a vehicle, amount in combined bank accounts, any other assets. It has been awhile but I remember they said she could not have over around $2000 in her checking and savings account or she wasn’t eligible, she would have to ‘spend down’ her money to get to that point, but it must be used only for her care, for care of the home and care of her pet. I Can NOT pay myself for doing for her, I can pay a family member but not myself.What is her monthly income? I know this is a lot but we have been through a lot, I only found this site, wish I would have a long time ago, it would have helped with the overwhelming situations that are ever changing. Luckily, mom is home alone now and has a nurse that comes once a week, paid for with Medicare and a certified nurses assistant,also paid for through Medicare. You really have to press for answers which is crazy, but I am finally getting her some small assistance to keep her at home safe and relieve my mind a little. Personally, from my experience, I do not know what the benefit of her purchasing a home at this stage of her life would do for her? When she passes, her creditors will get their money before any property is passes to the family if she owns. I don’t see the benefit for her?? My aunt owns the home my mom lives in, Mom has a ‘life entitlement ‘ to live there, so she does not own. Personally I am so glad that my mom doesn’t have anything of value, the family drama is bad enough,they are resent me because I take care of her, they won’t even call me to check on her?? It’s really sad, I love my mom and it isn’t about them. I hope this helps.
Apparently in San Antonio, TX they can. Doesn't make much common sense signing a 30 year mortgage at the age of 88 years old, but it does when you look at the big picture. Do not be surprised at what some will do to vulnerable persons. But you may be surprised at how little help you get through the state agencies, law enforcement, and judicial courts without an attorney and it's not cheap. APS was worthless and rude, forgery case was not investigated by police, homicide case was closed, Veterans Affairs doesn't care that she's probably scamming, FBI got a heads up and now I'm working on going through White Collar Criminal Division of the police department who practically want me to hand them a case ready to go to trial. We'll see how that turns out. I think I'm going to mention that our family used to turn out free donuts and coffee to any law enforcement who came into the shop in the '70's. Maybe they will turn out an investigation. It's a racket. You can't file in probate court by yourself without an attorney and with the filing fees alone you're looking at about $500 to file an Application. We (his daughters) happen to be in the income level just above qualifying for a free attorney so you have to have money to hire one. And you can't get records unless you have a signed release from the spouse (that's not going to happen) or a subpoena which requires filing with the court. If APS doesn't refer your case to law enforcement nothing goes to the DA so no charges are brought in court. Even if they are the DA doesn't like to take them to trial because the witnesses are usually dead by the time the trial date comes around. So the wife gets him to buy a $220k house with his GI Bill (no money down) and has already spent the rest of a settlement Dad just received (his personal property, not community property) for injuries during the Korean War. It only got worse. She forged his medical power of attorney and the hospital rescinded it but let her go and sign a DNR. I met with the nursing home with a letter and an affidavit that a DNR was not Dad's wishes and requested they cancel the DNR. The nursing home's attorneys sent a response saying, sorry, you need to go to court. His spouse restricted our access to visit, to get health information, she made every medical decision aimed toward just warehousing Dad and not helping him, denied him therapy, depression meds, his hearing aid and glasses, canceled doctor appointments and constantly called the police on us. Even the night he died. Then she called the Sheriff on us at the funeral trying to have us removed. She had banned us but we went anyway because we couldn't get the Honor Guard service for him in one day's notice and wanted to watch hers. We didn't disrespect Dad's funeral, she did. We had our separate service after hers. She even stole the plot she placed him in that had been left for my sister. We ran into them at the same restaurant afterwards and the daughter came out when we were leaving and yelled, "Y'all are the real losers, we got everything." Well now I want justice for having to watch my Dad take his last breaths after six days of no food or water at the nursing home. He did not look "comfortable" to me at all. He was scared and weighed 108 lbs. and on morphine. He was diagnosed with Parkinson's in January 2017, couldn't walk and had difficulty speaking. Once they can't communicate, getting anything done is hard. Trapped in their own bodies. Sorry, this was supposed to be an answer for you. What you described does not sound good and all decisions should be in her best interest. Don't underestimate the other guy, nothing makes sense in this world anymore.
Buss - it sounds like your father remarried or entered a domestic partnership which totally changes the dynamics of what happens after his death & his wife has been named administrator of his estate for probate or had everything set up to automatically flow to her after his death.
If you want to challenge whatever is happening in probate court, you need to be considered an “interested party with standing” to do this. Theres several probate attys in Bexar Co who do litigation and can review whatever paperwork you have to evaluate IF you have standing & they can get the docket & timeline for his PC#1 or #2 filings as well to see where things are. Also there’s Rio Grande Legal clinic for pro bono help. ST. Mary’s law school also does pro bono work. I’ve been executor 3x and always found TX PC to be very helpful, attentive and patient and I’ve set foot in several co CHs. But you HAVE TO HAVE ”standing”. If your not getting any traction with all the various entities you’ve spoken with (APS, SAPD, Bexar Co CH), its likely because you cannot show “standing”.
If dad was on hospice, they follow the very tight rules on what palliative/ comfort care is. Not drinking or eating the last few days is common. Forcing liquids cause aspiration. Hospice does not allow feeding tubes. If he or his wife chose hospice & had a DNR, it has to be respected. It’s their call, not yours as his daughter from an earlier marriage. If the “homicide” charge you wanted to file has to do with anything while your dad was on hospice, that’s imo a total non-starter. They are expected to die and show that to be overwhelmingly the situation in order for Medicare to pay for hospice.
Hospice has grief & bereavement therapy for family as a part of the Medicare paid hospice benefit. It may be that you could find some solace in your loss by having grief counseling. I’d suggest you contact the hospice group to see if you as one of his adult children can qualify. I qualified for grief counseling as Dpoa for my mom who died after 18 mos on hospice.
If he & his new wife bought a home and did a mortgage it was done as a couple. Being a couple means their income and assets get co-mingled. He would have had to legally have titled and transferred land, property, stocks, etc owned solely by Him to be in others names before the new marriage or had things excluded in detail in a prenup filed at the courthouse. A 20/30 yr standard mortgage can totally make sense if one spouse is younger. SABOR has median home price at $219,600 for March, 2018, so they did not buy a fancy, high end home. It’s average cost for San Antonio. It’s not a home in the ‘09. They were a couple and if he was a vet then his using VA benefit in buying their home is what the program is designed to do.
SA is like 1.3M, 10th largest city in US. Please, please find new restaurants to go to where you are not likely to run into the widow and her family.
Yes, his 2nd wife. Married 1st time 4/2002 and she filed for divorce 6/2002. Not sure why but Dad told me she asked where his stocks & bonds were and he told her he did not have any, hence the short marriage. I wasn't unhappy about it since I had run her name through a database at work and she had about 8-10 different ways of spelling her name and using different names. Dad's Last Will & Testament was in his fire safe he used to keep in his bedroom closet. Since she had him in the farthest bedroom away from her not able to get up, she went through his safe and took what she wanted like the note Dad wrote saying he was giving my sister the funeral plot when he died. That's the plot she stole from Barb, she helped pay for them. In Tx the spouse has to bury the other spouse. She just didn't want to buy another lot. Her daughter got on her mother's bad side so she sided with us but she had other motives. Turns out she's been running a business for 20 yrs and never paid taxes on it. Her boyfriend won't marry he because she won't get a social security check when she's too old to work. Since her mom just disowned her because she took our side, she wants a share for her nest egg. So the daughter starts trying to loan Dad's girls money for a lawyer to have a will drawn up while he was in the nursing home so she could become a beneficiary. (She never told us if her mother was going to write us in her will). He was not able to make will decisions then. If they did not turn over Dad's will, or even if they did, Kathy by law is not entitled to anything unless she is specifically written into the will. Oh and money from a settlement for personal injuries, especially when they happened 60 yrs ago in the Korean War before he met her, was not her money to spend. By Texas law that was his separate personal property. She was entitled to a portion of it, not all of it. It's been four months and we have asked for the will but she doesn't respond. She doesn't want us to have our share of Dad's community property, our share of his personal property, nothing. Even her daughter was the second person to be called in case of an emergency and the wife couldn't be reached. Her daughter and one of her friends had rights to information and access to Dad before we were, his own biological daughters. They bought the house while Dad was not capable of being alone anymore and had to be in adult daycare or be watched by me. You can't even read his signature. While her daughter was on our side she told us Dad's will is in a safety deposit box of one of the 6 bank accounts both of them (wife & her daughter) opened in their names, but Dad's name was only on 3 of the accounts. She doesn't have any money coming in except social security and owes a car payment on a Cadillac. I don't care about the money. Yes, Dad was old but if I showed you pictures of his decline in the last 14 months you would be shocked. Even the medical examiner said he had not been properly or well taken care of prior to death. Dad never would have wanted a DNR, we know better, our mother died in 1979, one brother in 1991 and one in 1997. No DNR's and my brother was at death's door. She did it out of spite. The homicide report was because my sister caught her giving him her prescription medication with his vitamins and she admitted it. She said "I give them to him to make him calm down and not bother me." Her high blood pressure medication! When the wife was asked about what she was doing with a $6,000 check she wrote, a simple "I invested it" was all it took to satisfy APS. Even with the admission of the wife of giving Dad her high blood pressure medicine, APS was cool with it apparently. She needs therapy and a pill or two.
His Alzheimer's diagnosis she first gave us turned out to be from a walk-in clinic. She dumbed him down with isolation, no hearing aid, no glasses, chemically restr
The POA was only for my Dad for medical, I don't know if she had a financial POA because Dad signed the deed of trust, illegibly, but signed. Dad is the one with dementia.
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If dpoa uses their authority to buy a home that the elder cannot afford or places them into debt with a mortgage that is not actuarial sound, that is not allowed. APS can be asked to review the situation and APS can contact police so charges filed and ask the court for a emergency ward of the state action done.
Most posters come onto this site at the point that they as dpoa or as family are now needing to file for LTC Medicaid for thier elderly parent as mom or dad with dementia cannot live on their own, they need care in a facility and the kids need to sell thier widowed parents home.
Not buying a new home for a parent with dementia.
Buying a new home for an aging elder with dementia is unusual.
Why? Just what’s the backstory on this that it makes sense to do?
If the POA is signing for the person with dementia, that power should be in the document. My mom made me her GDPOA several years ago and it was effective immediately. If something happened where Mom needed another residence, I had the power to sign all the paperwork for her.
Usually the POA sells the principal's home but I can think of two reasons where it might be used to purchase a home:
(1) relocate the principal to a home better suited for their living and care. Say from a two level to a single level with larger bedroom and bath for the principal and a second bedroom and bath for a care giver; or
(2) invest principal's money so it retains long term value and becomes an income stream from rents. Real estate has long been a stable low risk investment and right now rents provide a better return that many other low risk investments like bank accounts, CDs, and bonds.
I guarantee you she was not thinking about my Dad when she wanted to buy that house. She slings drinks at a VFW lounge where she doesn't tell anyone she's married because she tries to get in old people's wills as a beneficiary. Her daughter told us she had two boyfriends since she married Dad again. She tried to get in one man's will and his sister found out about it and confronted the man. She told the man not to do it because she won't even let him go to her house. She told him he didn't even know if she's married. Yep, she was married to my Dad.
If the Dementia person holds the deed and needs Medicaid in the future, the house will be counted as an asset. The problem is once on Medicaid for ur care ur SS and pension go to ur care. No money will be allowed for up keep on the house. So, it will need to be sold for Market value, or someone will need to pay the upkeep that they may never get reimbursed for.
I went to see my moms attorney with some questions I had as I have gone along and he actually told me that he was surprised I had not been asked for proof of my needling to activate the POA for medical, he told me that for it to be officially enforceable that she would have to be deemed ‘unable’ to make decisions on her own by a Doctors statement of such. I did pay for my appointment with him as it is legal to use her money for her needs, this fell into the scope,however, your local commission on aging should offer you access to free legal advice for you if needed, you may check that out.I keep detailed records of every dime I spend of her money, firstly because I am responsible and I want a record so no family could try to say I am taking anything from her, more importantly it is because if she comes to a stage that she needs financial assistance through the state, they is specific criteria that must be meet or it will hurt her ability to get assistance from the state. Any programs she would benefit from are needs that arise beyond her Medicare benefits. Mom has not met criteria yet, but here are some of the things they look at. They will do a 45 day review of her activity. She will not meet criteria if she has given away any assists in that time frame.They look at : does she own a home, a vehicle, amount in combined bank accounts, any other assets. It has been awhile but I remember they said she could not have over around $2000 in her checking and savings account or she wasn’t eligible, she would have to ‘spend down’ her money to get to that point, but it must be used only for her care, for care of the home and care of her pet. I Can NOT pay myself for doing for her, I can pay a family member but not myself.What is her monthly income?
I know this is a lot but we have been through a lot, I only found this site, wish I would have a long time ago, it would have helped with the overwhelming situations that are ever changing. Luckily, mom is home alone now and has a nurse that comes once a week, paid for with Medicare and a certified nurses assistant,also paid for through Medicare. You really have to press for answers which is crazy, but I am finally getting her some small assistance to keep her at home safe and relieve my mind a little. Personally, from my experience, I do not know what the benefit of her purchasing a home at this stage of her life would do for her? When she passes, her creditors will get their money before any property is passes to the family if she owns. I don’t see the benefit for her?? My aunt owns the home my mom lives in, Mom has a ‘life entitlement ‘ to live there, so she does not own. Personally I am so glad that my mom doesn’t have anything of value, the family drama is bad enough,they are resent me because I take care of her, they won’t even call me to check on her?? It’s really sad, I love my mom and it isn’t about them. I hope this helps.
If you want to challenge whatever is happening in probate court, you need to be considered an “interested party with standing” to do this.
Theres several probate attys in Bexar Co who do litigation and can review whatever paperwork you have to evaluate IF you have standing & they can get the docket & timeline for his PC#1 or #2 filings as well to see where things are. Also there’s Rio Grande Legal clinic for pro bono help. ST. Mary’s law school also does pro bono work. I’ve been executor 3x and always found TX PC to be very helpful, attentive and patient and I’ve set foot in several co CHs. But you HAVE TO HAVE ”standing”. If your not getting any traction with all the various entities you’ve spoken with (APS, SAPD, Bexar Co CH), its likely because you cannot show “standing”.
If dad was on hospice, they follow the very tight rules on what palliative/ comfort care is. Not drinking or eating the last few days is common. Forcing liquids cause aspiration. Hospice does not allow feeding tubes. If he or his wife chose hospice & had a DNR, it has to be respected. It’s their call, not yours as his daughter from an earlier marriage. If the “homicide” charge you wanted to file has to do with anything while your dad was on hospice, that’s imo a total non-starter. They are expected to die and show that to be overwhelmingly the situation in order for Medicare to pay for hospice.
Hospice has grief & bereavement therapy for family as a part of the Medicare paid hospice benefit. It may be that you could find some solace in your loss by having grief counseling. I’d suggest you contact the hospice group to see if you as one of his adult children can qualify. I qualified for grief counseling as Dpoa for my mom who died after 18 mos on hospice.
If he & his new wife bought a home and did a mortgage it was done as a couple. Being a couple means their income and assets get co-mingled. He would have had to legally have titled and transferred land, property, stocks, etc owned solely by Him to be in others names before the new marriage or had things excluded in detail in a prenup filed at the courthouse. A 20/30 yr standard mortgage can totally make sense if one spouse is younger. SABOR has median home price at $219,600 for March, 2018, so they did not buy a fancy, high end home. It’s average cost for San Antonio. It’s not a home in the ‘09. They were a couple and if he was a vet then his using VA benefit in buying their home is what the program is designed to do.
SA is like 1.3M, 10th largest city in US. Please, please find new restaurants to go to where you are not likely to run into the widow and her family.
His Alzheimer's diagnosis she first gave us turned out to be from a walk-in clinic. She dumbed him down with isolation, no hearing aid, no glasses, chemically restr