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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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My uncle went the hospital. From the hospital, he went to a nursing home. I called the nursing home letting them know I was picking him up. They told me if I came they would have me removed.
More information is needed. If you are not his POA, or guardian, or some sort of next of kin, I don't believe they will be willing or even able to let you take him anywhere. Please explain more about the situation.
We want him home with his family.. my mother is his poa and sister she was taking care of him herself and her health isn't that great anymore either. So I moved in to help them both. My mother feels safer knowing that her brother is around loved ones and that why she wants him home the rehab they are giving there they can provide at home ,but told her she wasn't aloud to
Only your mother can legally be involved at this point. You need to become his co-POA in order to function in this wise. You are not qualified to do Rehab. If he is in a rehab it is by doctor order and supervision, much like a hospital. It is not the same as a nursing home. He will be discharge from there to his former living situation (unless that is adjudged as unsafe in some way), and to the care of his sister, your Mom. If you create too many problems they will investigate where he is living, and this could be a kettle of fish to be certain. Cooperate. Take your mother to the facility with her POA papers and ask to participate in his plan of care and discharge plan.
You say "he went to a nursing". What does this mean. If he went to rehab, as you say below, you cannot do that care at home. You are not qualified to do rehab work. He will not STAY in rehab but will be discharged from there back to his former living situation if possible, or there will be a discharge plan. Your mother is his POA. She will have to be involved, even if YOU help. Is there other immediate family involved here, say a child of his that is interested in where he is placed, or a spouse? Your Uncle was discharged from ACUTE care to a lower level of medical care; he is still under the care and orders of an MD. Why in the world would you want to remove him from a place that is likely providing him with ongoing medical care such as Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy to assist in in being able to do his own ADL (activity of daily living) to the best of his ability. I think you are definitely taking the wrong moves here. You are wanting to remove him AMA (against medical advice) and clearly the rehab thinks this is endangering your uncle. Apparently your attitude has frightened the facility because if not they would ask you to come in with your Mom the Power of Attorney (and the only one they can legally deal with) and to participate in his plan of care and his discharge moving forward. Rethink this. You are missing a lot of information in how all this works. Make no mistake, if your Uncle has been living with his sister, if she is his POA, and if this has worked well for all involved then I am on YOUR SIDE. If your Mom is failing it is time to work on this so that you can co-serve with her. There is much work to do here and it is best it is done calming, with cooperation, and with knowledge of what is happening in your Uncle's care.
Many nursing homes have rehab facilities attached or integrated into their building, so is he actually in for rehab after hospitalization, which is very common, or is actually in permanent long term care portion in the nursing home? Do you understand the difference in your situation? How long has he been there? If he’s really just in rehab after a hospitalization, he may be able to come home eventually if he improves enough. What was he hospitalized for, if you don’t mind me asking? Rehab units are usually temporary stints to gain strength or mobility and to recover enough to return to the home. They give everyone time to assess the progress or lack of, and plan the next move. Since your Mom has POA, has she had a Care Conference with the facility yet? Does she know his long term prognosis? The facility evidently doesn’t think he’s ready to go home “yet” and will dispute your removal “against Medical advise”. Please have your Mom schedule a care conference ASAP.
I understand that your mom wants him home where she can see him. But if her health is failing (in what way?) it's just not feasible for him to get the kind of care he needs at home right now.
When someone is hospitalized for over 3 or 4 days, rehab is usually the next place they go. Sometimes its just to get their strength back. For that they shouldn't be in long. It all depends on why Uncle is in.
Your Mom has his POAs. She is the one who should be dealing with the Nursing home. Be aware that Medicare only pays 100% the first 20 days. 50% 21 to 100 days 50%. Supplimentals may pick up some of the balance but Uncle will owe something. If this will cause a problem financially, then ur mother will need to bring that to the rehabs attention. They may apply for Medicaid help.
Now if Uncle is not on Medicare, then his insurance may pick up his care. That you need to find out. Rehab should have already looked into this and can tell u what Uncles cost would be.
If the reason Uncle is in rehab is to get his strength back, depending on his hospital stay, he could be released before the 20 days. I was told for every day in the hospital, its 3 days of rehab.
Rehab is not a prison. A person has the right not to even go there if they don't want to. Therapy can be given at home. If you can prove Uncle can be taken care of properly in your home with homecare coming in for therapy, he really can't be forced to stay.
You and Mom need to speak to the Social Worker at the facility. Find out their reasons for keeping Uncle there. If you don't agree, and they still refuse to discharge him, then call your state Ombudsman, Rehab is required to give this information. Ask them to step in on Uncles behalf.
JoAnn, it depends on the supplemental insurance. Some actually pay everything that Medicare approves. My dad doesn't pay anything except insurance premiums and the 183.50 (?) Deductible that everyone pays no matter what coverage they have.
Toni, I would contact the DON at the facility and find out why your uncle would be better served in the facility. Lots of people will say that they will do the required PT and OT at home and then they are noncompliant. I would recommend letting him stay and get as strong as he possibly can, then you can continue his therapy at home. My dad would do things for his therapists in rehab/skilled nursing facility that he would look at me like I was speaking a foreign language when I encouraged him to do them. Patients tend to be more agreeable with non family members.
Best of luck getting everyone's needs met and some of their wants.
You’ve stated that your mom can basically no longer care for him or herself. And that she feels safer with your uncle in the house and wants him home. What about your uncle? This is actually not about your moms wants and needs. both of you need to be thinking about what is best for your uncle. His needs come first.
Tonitucker, for the NH to tell you that bluntly that if you attempted to discharge your uncle and take him home they would have you removed suggests to me that there are official people involved in this somewhere.
Your mother was looking after her brother at home. Your mother's health is not good now. Your uncle was taken to hospital - why? And from the hospital he was discharged to the NH.
Now: EITHER your uncle's healthcare team had your mother's permission to take him to the NH, OR there is some sort of emergency protection order in force so that your mother's POA has been overruled and she is no longer considered able to make decisions on your uncle's behalf.
If you'd like to, if you can describe what happened prior to your uncle's being taken to hospital, we can help you think through the next steps.
Looking at your profile, your uncle is a comparatively young person with Alzheimer's Disease and a number of other health difficulties. Looking after him just in itself would be a stretch for one person at home. Looking after him, and your mother, if things have already gone wrong... it might be better to think about how to support your uncle in the NH and reassure your mother that this is probably best for his welfare.
So to answer your initial question directly: reading between the lines, the NH possibly has a DUTY not to allow you or anyone else to take your uncle out of their care. So, in that case, yes they do have the right.
At onepoint OP says NH but at another says "Rehab". VERY different. If he is in rehab it is by doctor order with MD following him and discharge plan will follow his rehab. I am not certain OP is recognizing the vast differences between a nursing home and a skilled nursing rehab.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Who is going to provide 24/7 nursing care at home?
Rethink this. You are missing a lot of information in how all this works. Make no mistake, if your Uncle has been living with his sister, if she is his POA, and if this has worked well for all involved then I am on YOUR SIDE. If your Mom is failing it is time to work on this so that you can co-serve with her. There is much work to do here and it is best it is done calming, with cooperation, and with knowledge of what is happening in your Uncle's care.
Can you take your mom to see him in rehab?
When someone is hospitalized for over 3 or 4 days, rehab is usually the next place they go. Sometimes its just to get their strength back. For that they shouldn't be in long. It all depends on why Uncle is in.
Your Mom has his POAs. She is the one who should be dealing with the Nursing home. Be aware that Medicare only pays 100% the first 20 days. 50% 21 to 100 days 50%. Supplimentals may pick up some of the balance but Uncle will owe something. If this will cause a problem financially, then ur mother will need to bring that to the rehabs attention. They may apply for Medicaid help.
Now if Uncle is not on Medicare, then his insurance may pick up his care. That you need to find out. Rehab should have already looked into this and can tell u what Uncles cost would be.
If the reason Uncle is in rehab is to get his strength back, depending on his hospital stay, he could be released before the 20 days. I was told for every day in the hospital, its 3 days of rehab.
Rehab is not a prison. A person has the right not to even go there if they don't want to. Therapy can be given at home. If you can prove Uncle can be taken care of properly in your home with homecare coming in for therapy, he really can't be forced to stay.
You and Mom need to speak to the Social Worker at the facility. Find out their reasons for keeping Uncle there. If you don't agree, and they still refuse to discharge him, then call your state Ombudsman, Rehab is required to give this information. Ask them to step in on Uncles behalf.
Toni, I would contact the DON at the facility and find out why your uncle would be better served in the facility. Lots of people will say that they will do the required PT and OT at home and then they are noncompliant. I would recommend letting him stay and get as strong as he possibly can, then you can continue his therapy at home. My dad would do things for his therapists in rehab/skilled nursing facility that he would look at me like I was speaking a foreign language when I encouraged him to do them. Patients tend to be more agreeable with non family members.
Best of luck getting everyone's needs met and some of their wants.
Your mother was looking after her brother at home. Your mother's health is not good now. Your uncle was taken to hospital - why? And from the hospital he was discharged to the NH.
Now: EITHER your uncle's healthcare team had your mother's permission to take him to the NH, OR there is some sort of emergency protection order in force so that your mother's POA has been overruled and she is no longer considered able to make decisions on your uncle's behalf.
If you'd like to, if you can describe what happened prior to your uncle's being taken to hospital, we can help you think through the next steps.
Looking at your profile, your uncle is a comparatively young person with Alzheimer's Disease and a number of other health difficulties. Looking after him just in itself would be a stretch for one person at home. Looking after him, and your mother, if things have already gone wrong... it might be better to think about how to support your uncle in the NH and reassure your mother that this is probably best for his welfare.
So to answer your initial question directly: reading between the lines, the NH possibly has a DUTY not to allow you or anyone else to take your uncle out of their care. So, in that case, yes they do have the right.