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I've written about this before...here goes. MIL and her brother live in our rental. Uncle is in his 80's lost his license but still drives. He refuses to wear depends. He refuses to go with me to the VA home in Yountville to get him on waiting list. He has been hospitalized 3 times in 2019 for falls, illness. The last time I pitched a fit because they wanted to discharge him with no after care plan in place. My MIL is disabled and can't care fore him at home. It doesn't help that he now lives with her full time since he can no longer stay at the cabin property we own. Gone are the days of having a roommate that doesn't live with her. They fight like cats and dogs. He feels fine after leaving the hospital and fools everyone about his memory loss only to fall again or get sick.


MIL and Uncle both refuse to formulate a plan with us. We gave MIL a list of around 10 questions about her Will, where are her medical records/insurance, does she have a POA in place with someone she trusts, etc. We gave her these questions at the end of September 2019 with a request to get these answers by the end of November 2019 (crickets). We are now in Jan of 2020. She shouldn't be driving either and crashed her car into the rentals garage door a few month ago. Her insurance paid for the repairs. She has multiple doctor appointments along with, hair, manicures and dog grooming appointments. I honestly cannot/will not step in to do these things for her. She walks with a cane and has suffered multiple falls herself. On top of that, she doctor shops and has had multiple "elective" type surgeries ranging from, 2 wrist surgeries, 2 rotator cuff surgeries, left leg has been operated on numerous times, she is currently trying to find a doctor who will operate on her "good" leg. Super thankful the doctor she is trying to use is stalling her by using her brittle diabetic status to delay surgery. ugh!


My husband is an only child and MIL is a narcissist who controls with Fear, Obligation and Guilt. He is getting better with confronting her but still we are not getting anywhere. I worry constantly about how will we pay our house payment or make a major repair on the rental when one of them gets ill or dies. We had to raise the rent a little just to show a positive cash flow but they still pay $500-$800 under market for the rental. We are stuck and can't seem to get a plan in place. I call them my husbands elderly children. My husband is 51 and I am 46. We are the only ones on their side of the family besides MIL and Uncle. They are already impacting us and we have told both of them how they are impacting us. They say they are sorry but STILL refuse to take action. Its not a matter of "if" something goes sideways its a matter of "when." Whenever anything goes wrong over there with falls/health/finances we are the ones they lean on....

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You are trying to mix church and state, family and business usually does not work and this is not working.

Time to force the issue, they need to be in AL, you hold the keys it is your property. You have no obligation to rent to them, and in this case it is not a good option for either them or you.

Come up with doable plan..if they cannot afford a home, apply for Medicaid, get the ball rolling before something real bad happens.
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worriedinCali Jan 2020
The OP doesn’t have the authority to apply for Medi-cal, she doesn’t have POA for MIL and neither does her husband. medi-cal won’t pay for the room & board portion of AL which is the bulk of the cost.
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The power is with your husband. To change this mess he will have to gather the courage to fully stand up to them and decide to no longer finance or participate in their dysfunction. You both need to be first looking after your finances and we’ll being, long before you try to help this situation. Their failure to plan or act doesn’t make it your emergency, but your husband will have to decide to make them move and no longer give money or other encouragement to a bad situation. I wish you luck
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Perhaps you could tell them something is changing in your (you and husband) lives or your hands are being forced financially somehow so withing 6 mos you either need to be getting full market value rent or put the rental property on the market. You would love to keep them there if that's what they want but they will need to find a way to come up with the higher rent. Then you could suggest that maybe there are VA benefits that would help with this, either helping with rent here or subsidizing rent somewhere else but of course the only way to know is for uncle to go talk to VA and get himself in the pipeline. These things can take quite a while so sooner the better and there is no commitment to finding our what resources he has available to him. It is of course his choice, fully in his control but if he chooses to do nothing he is making a choice that may not make either of them happy 6 months from now.

If he does choose to do nothing it might be your husbands opportunity to split them up, he/you both would be perfectly reasonable finding a new residence for MIL alone and letting uncle cut himself loose. Now if mom wont cooperate and give her son the ability to help her, well guess she has made a decision too. If she wont give you the ability to help you really don't have a choice, you will need to let her dig herself a hole and when she has some major event and you can't rescue her because she hasn't given you the ability hard as it will be you will have to let the chips fall. I would make sure she always knows you are ready and willing when she is ready to let you help but until she unties your hands don't bang your heads against a wall, she is making her choice and you are being clear about what that choice does and doesn't enable you to do. No guilt.

You and DH need to stop enabling them to lean on you while making you ability to hold them up almost impossible, take control of your lives back. MIL & UIL will still have control over their lives just not yours, only you have the power to make that happen. I am in no way suggesting this is or will be easy or even instinctual, in fact you probably have to fight instinct to just make everything better and jump to their wishes. Good luck your husband and his family are very lucky to have you and your patience in their corner.
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anonymous912123 Jan 2020
Yes, enabling 101 has occurred. Great post!
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Ugh I don't envy your situation with resistant relatives. You have been very heroic, patient, compassionate and generous. Anything you do with them moving forward should NOT create guilt in you in any way.

I would begin by sitting both of them down and having a "Did you know..." conversation with them (assuming they aren't cognitively impaired where they won't understand or remember or are able to make a rational decision).

"Did you know that if you don't assign a durable PoA that social services will come in and make you a ward of the county and then no one, not even your relatives, will have a say in where you go or what medical care you get?"

"Did you know that no one gets off this planet alive?"

"Did you know that caring for LOs will eventually be so stressful that we won't be able to handle it mentally, emotionally or financially? Do you care if this happens to us?"

Whatever they say after this is their decision. If they don't make your husband PoA then he can decide if he wants to pursue guardianship over his mom and uncle. Or if he wants to report them to social services to get them on their radar so they can take over. You probably can do an eviction procedure but I'm sure that won't feel good/right/moral but it would allow them to be forcibly removed...provided they have a place to land (assuming this would be a facility).

In the meantime, if either of them has a problem that causes them to go into the ER, hospital, rehab, etc. you may be able to tell them that they cannot be released to go back to live there as it would be an "unsafe discharge". Since you are the landlords, I'm not sure if you have the authority for this, but you may.

I wish you much courage and wisdom as you have these difficult conversations and success in reaching solutions that benefit all.
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Call Adult Protective Services and report them as vulnerable elderly in need of care.

Stop showing up when they get taken to the hospital.

Wait for the fall or the illness that makes the hospital no longer willing to make an unsafe discharge.

They are beyond selfish and beyond your responsibility.

Consider eviction if they continue to damage your property.
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This is a post of the OP's from November:

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/mil-lives-in-our-rental-costing-us-rental-income-and-out-of-pocket-expenses-453065.htm?orderby=recent

I know my response of "evict them" sounds mean. I think the back story will help with an understanding of why I think it's ultimately the solution for this entitled, narcissistic pair.
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Stop enabling them.

Start with an eviction notice. They can find subsidized housing, it is not your job to accept less than market rent.

Why are you putting your future at risk, by supporting these two?

It does not matter if they say "Sorry.". if their actions do not change.
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Lisarox Feb 2020
So much has happened since this last post. MIL and Uncle both caught the flu in Jan. Uncle fell in the bathroom and EMS came over and picked him up. I raced over there and spoke to EMS. Uncle refused transport even though I knew he would fall again and require hospitalization. He fell that evening again...MIL and roommate call us. We get there and uncle is naked and has released his bowels EVERYWHERE scrapped his arm badly on the wall so now that's mixed with blood. Husband and I get him semi cleaned up and off the floor. I encourage uncle to go to hospital, he agrees and EMS is called. ER administers fluids and sent uncle back home at midnight with a cab voucher...sigh.

MIL then goes into full blown ketoacidosis the next day. MIL is very out of it with fever, dehydration and is septic. She ends up in the hospital for 5 days. We thought she might not pull through. MIL's close friend who thought she had medical authorization gets involved. She pushes to have MIL transferred to the care facility she runs in Napa and is contracted with Kaiser. She also formulates a plan of moving MIL into her home along with the roommate (Friends sister) Doctor does not want MIL to drive anymore. Kaiser refuses to set up AL at the Kaiser contracted facility but instead orders rehab to be done at home.

MIL comes home and we have a family meeting the following day stating we need her to consider moving in with her friend where MIL will be safe and monitored. MIL refuses, we then tell her that we would like to sell the house by summer. MIL tells friend she has a new lease and won't be moving. We raised the rent on Feb 1st with a increase letter dated Nov 1st the previous year. Her lease expired on Jan 31. She is actually month to month. We also told her POA needs to be set up for MIL friend to make decisions. MIL is tasked with getting these things in place because she does not want anyones assistance with the process.

Que 1-1/2 weeks later (last night) MIL is rushed to hospital and is now in ICU because of Ketoacidosis again. Her friend rushes to the ER. Husband and I are digging in our heels about not rushing in. We are of the mindset that MIL has been giving MONTHS to get her affairs in order. She has fought us tooth and nail regarding formulating a "plan." Friend asked if we would make the decision to ventilate MIL or not. MIL indicated to friend she wants to be resuscitated and ALL measures taken to keep her alive. There is no word from the hospital or her friend this morning. We continue to wait and see what else is going to go wrong....sigh.
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The next time one of them sends away a health aide that has been ordered by discharge, you call APS and report them as endangering their own health and safety.

If your DH doesn't understand that what he is doing is enabling bad and dangerous behavior, it may be time for some joint therapy.

He has likely been groomed by his narcissistic mother to do her bidding, right? Check out the "saying no to your parent" thread.
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