Growing up, my narcissistic mother made it clear she does not have time for me. As an adult she made excuses not to see me. Things like, "it was her house cleaning day". Invitations to spend Christmas were declined and instead spent with her adult stepchildren who she openly hated. So, we have been NC/LC. But, recently she was diagnosed with dementia and at stage 4.
I recently spent a few days with her at her request. I helped her sort out a few things. She seemed happy enough. A few weeks later I hear a tone of confabulations. For example, on one day it was lunch time and I had taken her shopping at her request. I was hungry. My options were:
1. Starve.
2. Eat in front of her.
3. Find somewhere nice but inexpensive for us both to eat.
She insisted on paying. If she had asked me to pay, or asked me to pay my share, I would have done so no problem. But, she's been running around saying I demanded she pay. Even pre-dementia she was like this. She would insist on paying. But being a narc, of course, any gifts come with strings. She's always made me out to be the villain (which is why we are NC/LC). This time, I'm an evil monster.
What are some strategies (whether they be successful or unsuccessful) that you have used? I REALLY regret helping her.
Do as much as you see fit to do for her. If you see fit not to do for her, then don't and that's okay too.
Arrange homecare help for her or start looking in appropriate care facilites who can meet her needs.
you in. Be clear that she will not change now, more likely to double down on her rightness and smear stories. And be prepared to defend your boundaries and take the consequences. ‘Mum, when you start being abusive, I will leave.’ Take a snack with you and when sorting things out be sure you are careful what you take with you, etc. My brother took my mum’s bank card to the bank because the PIN didn’t work. Since then mum has told anyone and everyone that he stole her bank card and stole all her money. People have believed her and felt sorry for her. I am LPOA and deal with all her finances and have shown her and her friends that nothing untoward has occurred. They don’t want to believe that and she is now telling people in the care home that I’ve said that because we are having an affair (my brother and I). It’s absolutely mortifying, but I’ve grown a thick skin. People believe what they want to and that says more about them than me!
If there is a history of abuse and dysfunction, it becomes nearly impossible.
Now is the time for a NH, MC, AL, or homecare services if appropriate.
No one has to tolerate or live with abuse. It really makes no difference if the abuser has dementia or not. It's still abuse.
Piano's mother has been an abusive narcissist for life. That only gets worse when people like this get old even when they don't have dementia.
Caregivers have to learn how to be caregivers to themselves first otherwise they will go down fast. To be a caregiver does not mean being the one doing the hands-on care. Or giving up their life outside of caregiving to sit hour after hour watching paint dry because the demented "loved one" can't be left alone for a second.
Or being a victim of abuse because often the dementia behavior go beyond asinine nonsense and the showtiming can be so believable that they convince others that you're stealing or abusing them. It can get physical too because many people with dementia are still physically healthy and strong.
A person can be a caregiver by being an advocate. Making sure someone is getting proper care in a facility is just as important as doing that care yourself.
It sounds like you're familiar with her behaviors and tactics. If paying for lunch or dinner or anything is one of her narcissistic strategies of control/guilt/shame, than realize you are empowered to deny her that. Be more insistent that you pay for yourself or for both. Then, too, there's the option to just not take her to lunch at all. Grab some food on the way to her house, either a sandwhich for yourself that you eat on the way, or lunch for the two of you. Keep some snacks on you (in your car or in your bag).
A narcissist will always utilize triangulation, because it's not about you. It's about the sympathy/pity/attention they can get from whatever person in that moment & their own need to know that they're favored and in control.
Gratitude and humility are not the domain of any narcissist. Realize that even if you pay for lunch, she will still call and complain to others about something you did or didn't do. She will want you to feel shame and guilt, because it's through shame and guilt she gets to feel a sense of power and control.
Her need for any kind of power and control will likely worsen as she faces losing her independence with dementia diagnosis. You can be kind and caring without becoming a doormat to her commands and power trips.
You can't control her. You can't change her. But you can be wise to her and choose not to play along.
I too have grown up under the “un-watchful” eye of a narcissistic mother. Let alone, I’m the last of third so more ignored than coddled. I know what it feels like and it’s sooo difficult because at times it’s almost impossible to discern if it’s the dementia or the normal personality.
But, I will still try my hardest to appeal to her narcissistic ways because she is your mother and you only get one. I say that completely without judgement!
Sometimes it helps to look at the situation and pretend she is a friend of the family’s or a favorite auntie who is in this difficult place. That would naturally involve more placating or appeasement. You won’t change your mother. And even being a narc., she has a deep-seeded need to be accepted. You probably won’t get applause or even a simple “thank you.” And you will always be the villain. But know and trust yourself. You know you’re not and most people by-now, know your mothers nature and/or her narcissistic ways, so my advice would be to stop worrying about how things look to others or how you’ll be judged by others and simply appeal to your mother’s dementia. Placate her, make her feel loved. I know you won’t receive that back in the way we’d like but it’s time to put the past behind. Consider being the adult in this situation even though you’ve had to your whole life, now is the best time to try to ignore the misgivings and be the best daughter you can.
You don’t want to feel regret and time often moves faster than we’d like.
Wishing you the strength to be “wrong” and continue to be ok with it.
Caregivers can also think of family caregiving for an elderly parent as a sort of marriage.
If two people marry and are so miserable together than their lives are ruined and they hate and resent each other, they get divorced. Everyone is better for it too.
The same when you're the child of a narcissistic, entitled, selfish, cruel parent that becomes elderly and needy who then needs caregiving.
If the abuse (whether it's dementia related or not) gets too stupid and the behavior becomes too destructive to their adult child's mind and life, then it's time to "divorce".
I'm speaking in terms of mom/dad gets placed in a care facility. Or homecare takes over. If neither is possible than 'Grey Rock' the hell out of the situation. Do only the most basic needs and completely ignore them the rest of the time. No interaction. No socialization. No conversation. Absolutely nothing as if you're their guard in solitary confinement. Food, meds, basic housekeeping. Nothing else.
I have told my own mother many times that a person may reap what they have sown.
If a parent plants a field of resentment and indifference they cannot expect a harvest of love and loyalty when their time of need comes.
I am not dealing with a mentally sane person. I have to remind myself this. It’s hard when it looks and sounds like your mother, but its not anymore. She's very toxic and I can only stand so much. I am not used to being Controlled or verbally abused anymore. Unfortunately, I have to put her on “Probation” which means I take breaks from her, while this is good for my mental health. I return to a smelly, filthy disorganized luxury penthouse apartment I put her up in. Which means I have to work harder to Clean up the filthy mess she made. I now take deeper breathes, pray for protection against her evil being and I use aromatherapy. I make jewelry & blend essential oils. I use this locket and put my favorite Patchouli/Musk blend in it and wear it around my neck as a reminder NOT to take The Bait. That is what Narcs feed off of, our Reactions. When she wants to argue I just smell my locket and it reminds me NOT To take The Bait. I say “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” and I say "She is sick". "Don’t fall for it". All this self-talk and my special locket really does help me. It’s a new tactic. Deep breathes people hang in there, limit your precious Time, do what you can and get OUT. Most important YOU are not alone in this messed up Narc War.
Angel
After living with us for 18 years, my mother tells people she’s never even visited our home to see her grandchildren. Fortunately the vast majority of our relatives and friends visited, so it’s obvious her dementia is doing the talking.
Funny thing I believe in 1974 the musical piece Cat's in the Cradle was composed.
You are aware of her traps already so take control with a smile to yourself while thinking - not this time babe. Or only bring in take-out, or don't take money for it if you can. If you must write on the receipt, for her to see, - Mom paid half for chinese food on Monday and date, and then tell her you're saving it (and all other receipts from now on) as a souvenir of a good time spent with her.
Who knows where she plants her landmines better than you. You can avoid it. Start practicing. Amaze yourself. Take deep breaths when you feel like you're losing it. Look at her as if she's a curiosity. Detach. Feel good that you're not her.
As for the rest call her once a week, put a timer on for ten minutes, if she says anything hurtful give an excuse and say, "love you mom but I've got to go, " and hang up.
A NPD's goal is to tear everyone around them down and when you are the child of that NPD, you suffer the worst. Everyone wants to be loved and approved of by their mother, don't they? Well - it just doesn't happen for us. They will never love us more than they love themselves so we just have to learn to compartmentalize them if we have to deal with them.
I was NC with my mother for 15 or so years before she made contact with me nearly 3 years ago. In a weak moment, I agreed to see her and I learned that my stepdad had died 5 months earlier and it was evident she had dementia. Out of respect for my dad and stepdad and because God wants me to honor my parents, I agreed to begin to help her. Even then though, I only made that decision after much soul searching to decide whether I was strong enough to deal with her without doing harm to myself. In my own mind, I reserve the right to change my decision at any given time if my own wellbeing begins to suffer. I do, after all, have other people who rely on me for love and care and I have to be okay for them too.
When her narcissism outweighs her dementia, I have to step back and remind myself that I am only a caregiver, not a family member. I have to think that way for my own sanity and to be able to maintain the standard of character I have come to expect of myself. By doing that, I am able to give her the same level of basic courtesy and respect that I would give to a stranger, but nothing more. When her dementia is weighing more heavily, I am able to be compassionate toward her and patient and forgiving, but I never, ever, ever let my guard down.
Just this past Sunday, my mother embarrassed me horribly in church. I left her sitting in the pew and went to the car to wait for her. She managed to drag at least four other people into the situation and she was absolutely loving the attention. I won't bore you with the sick details of what all happened, but after the dust settled, I'm very sure I was shown in a bad light among some of my fellow church members thanks to her. Yep, it bothers me. These are my friends. My only hope is that they know me well enough to know I wouldn't treat my mother as shoddily as she made it seem OR that they don't know me at all and so I really don't/can't care what they think. People will believe what they want to believe. The one thing that kept me from going off on her in front of them is the fact that I have a higher standard of behavior for myself and I knew I would be disappointed that I let myself down.
I went NC for the week this week and I don't feel bad about it. The director of her AL called me last night to "discuss a few things". Turns out - she's been on a rage all week. I'm currently contemplating how to approach this weekend. I always see her on Saturday and then church on Sunday, Knowing she has been on a tear, I'm fairly certain I will tell her I won't take her to church Sunday because she can't behave, and if she isn't courteous when I go to see her tomorrow, I won't stay long and I won't take her anywhere. I've come to realize that the only real way to deal with her bad behavior is to give her negative consequences.
Sucks to be the child of a narcissist with dementia. I feel for you.
We need to do what we are able to w/o taking ourselves down physically & emotionally. I am driving 2 hrs up to see my Mom today. Bringing lunch from Whole Foods as it is easiest. She is horrible in my car. Yelling for me to watch out for traffic. I will take her down to the grocery store today. She will yell at men who smile in my direction. I tell her we all look at other people. They aren't being creepy. She said "no one looks at my Daughter 1/2 their age."
No one visits her (except one neighbor briefly thru the week & my Brother once a month--he has POA) because of her behaviors. We are all so "ready" at any given moment to grey block or respond--walk away.. We must advocate for ourselves! Care about our own mental health day to day. Self care.
I don't pick up the phone when my Mom calls. It is just to ramble nonsensically. I phone once a day. Sometimes less than 10 mins, sometimes 20. No longer. I will not subject myself to the absurd behaviors. And now I leave her place after 4 hrs. No reason to stay and deplete myself all the more.. I drive back home at 530, telling her I want to beat traffic..get off the road with all the L.A. crazies driving.. None of this is the reason why I leave early.
One of your responders wrote that it was funny to come with with responses. I do the same. We play Scrabble. She refuses to create 2 & 3 letter words so I take 95% of all the turns. I tell her my Dad is watching & laughing & loving it . Instead of her holding me hostage during the game, I create words and praise myself. Meantime she makes negative cracks in the background. Then when I go to leave it's the "what will I do without you...I miss you so much.. love you ...love you." Hard to take in her love bomb comments because they come on the tail of so much narcissistic behavior...
I can't wait to water her plants that haven't been watered for 2 wks. She refuses to water them and told me she is trying to kill them. Her trash will be pretty much overflowing. She chooses this.. The money is not the problem. She rebels. Won't allow old Housekeeper to come back....yet. Also chain smokes cigars, so I will trash the ashes. Always fun to see where she is hiding the remains.. One day at a time. One week at a time. When she requires physical help: Caregiver in home (if the case) we will hire then. She makes her bed though doesn't lift a finger to clean anything...She yells when I tidy up. Cusses. Slams her hands on her table.... I will never live with her or vice versa. I will give her a nice day.. BUT>>>end of day: She has chosen (for a fair amount) to be nasty..and not have friends.. Complains about not having them.. then says she doesn't need them. I will not sweat over all this crap. I will do my part &...depart, with peace of mind.
***YOU are to LIVE your life... Enjoy life.. You were not put on this planet to sacrifice mind body & soul to your Mom for eternity. Hang in there & be good to yourself.... PS My Mom openly says she hates her Stepkids too, who are FAB & successful. PPS Do we have the same Mom? ;-)
Codependence-
https://youtu.be/R07vVt-2diU
Also how to say no. Stop feeling the guilt they trained you to feel. And stop fixing their problems.
AND recognizing your being sucked back in.
Richard Grannon is also a good one to watch. He has different insight, than the others.
Setting boundries, and the guilt when you do.
You can drive the car, or multitask while listening. It will help you see the abnormal relationships and how to handle them. Bc usually children of narcs attracts more narcs as friends and loved ones.
Id also stop to eat before you go, and limit visits if she tries to embarrass you in front of others. Or pay, and if she says something nasty, say yea I'm so horrible, I bought you lunch. That's what horrible people do.
And leave immediately if she says anything nasty. You never stay to get abused more! Never. And say Im not here to be your verbal punching bag bc your in a bad mood. Then don't visit for awhile. You must leave immediately and every time. Even if she says something snarky within 1 minute of you arriving. And do not feel guilty. Remind yourself, you are setting proper boundries, not being horrible bc you left. You would not take nasty remarks from a coworker, or stranger. You shouldn't from her either. A lot of good info on YouTube.
You have been conditioned to take the abuse. You can learn to see it immediately, and react appropriately.
You will grieve the relationship you never had and wanted. I still do. I never had a normal relationship. Still don't with my sibling. She pitted us against each other.
BUT you can create good relationships with others. The way you want them to be. Good luck.
Thank you for this response to Jasmina....It has also helped me tremendously as I am the caregiver for my mom, 93, with dementia. I am realizing now that I can no longer do this alone and will need to place her in a facility soon and having to continue to fight the guilt of that, so again THANK YOU!
I hope you don't plan to move in with her as her dementia progresses OR have her move in with you.
She might want you to start coming and staying with her more and more.
Does anyone have her POA/HCPOA? I would suggest that you NOT take on these roles.
Working with a great therapist to unpack things that have happened over decades and the narcissist treatment I got as a child from my mom have been very helpful. I now know about setting firm boundaries for my well being and mental health; like the no direct contact decision. As others have said, we cannot change others. My mom and yours will not change no matter how much we wish it or try to be "good daughters" or try to "explain or reason" with them. We can only change our own behavior(s) and develop strategies that work for us to protect ourselves.
Adult children do NOT owe their parents what they may demand. Having a narcissist parent, especially a mom, is very hard. This is NOT the mother any child deserves. Add dementia to the equation and their potential need for help and one has a total "hot mess" of a situation.
My advice is find a great therapist to help you with this to come up with boundaries/strategies that work for you, for you to protect yourself. If it is full no contact, so be it. If it is limited contact, so be it and have exit strategies or preempt things. Next time if out for lunch, when ordering ask for separate checks at the outset (confirm ahead of time the location does separate checks) and make sure you choose the location to assure separate checks OR just stop doing lunches at restaurants. Bring your own snacks and a water bottle so you are not famished. Or set a finite time for the outing that ends before you get hungry and just stick to the end time and a firm NO on eating out with her. You do not need to explain why as "NO" is a complete sentence. Do the shopping w/her after lunch, always. In other words, come up with a strategy ahead of time so you are in control of the situation and have clarity over what you will or will not do moving forward with her.
You did not mention where your mom is living now (independently, in an AL facility or at a NH?). But with dementia, at some point she will likely need nursing home or memory care, in other words some type of long term care at a facility. Something to plan for if not already done.
My mom is in a nursing home (NH) now since October 2020 because of the dementia and an inability to do most ADLs and IADLs. She can barely walk 5 feet with her walker now.
All of this is so sad and hard. Dementia is like having one's parent land on planet Mongo -- everything is upside down and not working. Add narcissism or other behavioral issues and it is impossible for most of us to handle direct contact at all.
Good luck with this.
That is not to say that you have to keep a narc in your life. In fact, currently dealing with a raging narc who is moving into at the very least age related cognitive decline - I fully recommend as little contact as possible. Because it typically gets worse as they decline. As their circle shrinks, they tend to get meaner and more controlling and say worse things.
You have to decide that either you don't care what they say and to whom (and that you are going to control the narrative to those that you do care about), that you are going to ignore the flying monkeys (because those do seem to dwindle as time goes on - at least in our case - or at least they don't seem to fly as often), and that you can deal with everything else and manage the attitude. OR you are going to limit contact as much as possible. Because you have to develop a thick skin with a narc or they will zero in on any perceived weakness and use it to their advantage.
On the dementia front - there is a slim (very slim as in probably none - but I have heard tales of miracles - although I have heard far more tales of the other extreme so remember that) where narcs collapse and become so scared that they become meek and mild. From what I understand that is the exception and not the rule, and more often than not, it goes the other way and narc symptoms get worse and of course in tandem with the dementia there is no reasoning or discussing with them. So that thick skin is going to be a requirement if you are going to be a caregiver in anyway.
In this case, I really recommend looking into your options for memory care early. At the very least you wouldn't be the primary caregiver and would have the ability to walk away and leave her in the care of someone else when you need to breathe rather than it being on your shoulders all the time. It won't make it easy but at least it would take the pressure off of you and you would know you can have an escape door. Keep very clear boundaries.
We learned to let him talk, you can't change them its all what they know how to do. You don't correct them because they will get worse or meaner in my case. You just hope that people they are around don't take the stories to heart. Like in my case they did I was reported to Dept of Human Services for belittling him. It was his family that did it to me(my sister in law and niece). I told DHS that I didn't do anything that they were trying to get me out of his life to get his money that I have control of that rep payee of soc sec. It was unfounded but his stories made it that way. Its a constant battle his stories that I am stealing from him, that you take my food away from me. I have been helping this man for over 15yrs when all his family stepped away because of the stories they couldn't take his stories.
You just have to know in your mind and God knows you didn't do anything wrong and next time this happens buy your own food don't give her a chance to offer and if she says something to the fact where is mine say mom you have money you can get yours and make sure she has money. My BIL says he doesn't when in fact he does it just goes for things he thinks he needs like cookies and candy.
Prayers.
This is compounded when you think of Narcissism and dementia. There you are REALLY up the creek without a paddle.
The way to deal with these issues is to move slowly away from them. In the case of dementia, only, will you need to ignore wishes and pronouncements if you are POA, and take charge for the safety of the elder. In the case of personality disorders, however, you will have no power to do so.
In your own case with the lunch? If Mom paid, and then ran around and said you "forced her to pay" I would just smile and sweetly say "Yes, Mom, I did. But wasn't it GOOD!" Honestly, sometimes there is no answer but to fight things with a strong sense of humor. It can be fun to come up with responses.
My mother, if I would want to pay for a lunch she would say "I am not a bag lady" ok so the next time I would not offer, she would say "We need to split the bill, ok" the next time she would say "You pay" and on and one it went, until I said "I will not go out to lunch with you anymore". Problem solved.
Just an example of the crap I went through with her, I haven't spoken to her for 11 years and never will again, I am one of many who have stopped having a relationship with her, her entire side of the family has not spoken to her for over 30 years. Prior to that I was NC for 9 years, I went back because she was getting old, BIG MISTAKE never to be repeated.
Do what is best for you she cannot step on you if you are laying on the ground, get up and walk away, for your emotional well-being.
Are you sure it matters? She probably tells people you never reached out to her at Christmas, too. People like your mother talk for effect: as with headline-hungry journalists, they never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Don't the people who gave you this recent feedback already know that?
So, you either accept her personality as it is and you know it to be, or you go back to minimal contact.