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Mom's dying.What about the acct? I'm the only relative

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If she can care of consent, go ahead and see what she wants done with her remains when she's gone. Then, go to the funeral home of her choice and pay for those arrangements if she has the funds to pay off the arrangements. This would be the smartest thing you can do right now because money will be needed for her final disposition
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Teacher34 - it would depend if the accounts have "suvivorship rights", meaning upon the death of one of the joint account holders, the money becomes the property of the surviving joint account holder. That's how it worked for me when my mom passed about six weeks ago. Both checking and savings were transferred to me when I presented moms death certificate. Then I closed the savings, taking it in three equal cashiers checks made out to me and my brothers each. The checking is in my name only now and I'm keeping it open to pay all the costs associated with probate and final taxes. Once probate is over with I will divide any remaining checking account money equally between my brothers and me.
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teacher34, no you cannot, you must go to the bank with the death certificate and possibly the Will naming you executor.
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my mother passed away 3 weeks ago my name along with hers is on her checking and savings account can I continue using the checking and savings account to pay her bills?
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Simony4 - There really isn't a "right" or "wrong" time. Talk with you Mom's doctor and also ask for someone to come to her home and do an evaluation. Then take it from there. Is she on Medicare?
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When is the time to call in a social worker to mom's home?
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Your mother's "money", like all her assets, become part of her estate when she dies. I would suggest going through the Probate process. It's clean, and it's legally correct. The will is only the beginning.
If there are multiple heirs, each prospective heir gets a copy of the will, which they will have to sign and return to the court/or the lawyer for the estate. If you are the only heir, don't worry, no probate is necessary, although it may be a good thing.
Now the fun begins: Number one, YOU do NOT have to pay off her credit cards or her debts!! Do not put your name on anything. ( of hers). Try to get her to withdraw her money from the savings account, checking account and IRA's BEFORE she dies, if this is possible. Hopefully she will have named you as Executor or Personal Representative before her death. The court will do this for sure. Put the cash money in a safe place. Do not give it away or spend it. Forget charities. That's a joke. The rich seem to think that donations to charities are a good thing, but I have news..... (It often never reaches the designated charity).
Meet with an elder care lawyer, and lay out the will.
No where is it written that a deceased persons' bills have to be paid. It will have an adverse effect on her credit rating, but who cares? If there is no money in the estate, or very little, you can't pay the bills. You will have all you can do to tke care of the funeral and burial arrangements. Many unforseen bills will pop up.
If there IS money in her estate, anyone can file against the estate and try to recover their money. This is a legal process. That' why you want to get the money out before she dies. Am I bad, or what?
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Pat - the commingling issue is really for when you get Medicaid. Medicare everybody over a certain age gets and the premiums get taken out of your social security monthly payment to pay for it once your retired. Medicaid is for low income and you have to qualify for it. Medicaid runs on each state's specific rules - Medicaid for us on this site seems to be all about having Medicaid pay for our impoverished mom's & dad's care in the NH/LTC or for those states that do a waiver (lucky them!),for their AL. But Medicaid also pays for Food Stamps and Aid to Dependent Children - the state rules are different for those benefits.

Medicare is governed by the overall federal rules.

If you are on Medicaid and are a married couple, you are a legal entity as a married couple. Your $ is expected to be commingled, it's no problem. Each state has a ceiling of what the amount of $$ that is exempt from being used to pay for one spouse's share in order to qualify for Medicaid if you find that your DH needs to go to a NH and you don't. My mom is a widow so I never really bothered to find out those details. You & your DH are probably just fine with your trust!

What I was commenting on is the problem of commingling between a elderly person and their adult child or caregiver. It would be a shame if say, Ruiz had
10K saved up but only 2K was from mom's money but she had to spend all 10K of it on mom's spend down to get her on Medicaid because she couldn't produce a documented detailed papertrail for the last 5 years of where the $$ came from and got spent on. With Medicaid the caseworkers don't have the time or the training to go into details or listen to a story, it's got to get checked off yes or no and not well "part of it is mine and part of it is mom's". That gets checked off as a no and you get denied.You can appeal but again you have to produce the papertrail. My gut feeling is with the states all expecting shortfalls in revenue, denial of Medicaid application will increase as it's just so expensive.
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The savings account the money is in I had it before my mom retired...at that time she gave me the amount of money and I deposited on my account and has been there for the last 15 years. Her name does not appear in this account at all. Whatever she needs (moneywise) I withdraw the amount she needs and that's it.
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igloo572 Do you know if it is ok for funds to be "comingled" if it is a joint account. Husband and wife. The account is in our trust. When the trust was written we were not questioned but after your post I am curious. We are on Medicare and of course SS. Yes, there is an accounting of everything.
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Ruiz - Maybe it will never happen BUT if the day comes and you need for your mom to get Medicaid for LTC, the state will require an accounting of where her assets (SS and pension money) for up to the past 5 years has gone. They want a papertrail and without it her application will be turned down.

You say she has Soc. Security and a small pension & whatever savings she has (not a whole lot) goes into a savings account in your name. When you do that the $$ becomes commingled. The state can require that everything in the savings account (that is in your name) be spent down on her care even if some of the money is your own personal savings because it has been commingled. Medicaid does not allow money earned from work or Social Security to be “commingled” with anyone else’s money if the person wants to maintain eligibility for Medicaid.
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igloo572 - I never said the account was in my mom's and my name...is my savings account only.
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I just want to add it might be good to prepay her funeral expenses and I found I made a mistake paying the funeral home fully within days of my husband dieing-I found out later that most funeral homes will contact Social Security etc themselves I had to do all that myself-I should have shoped around but instead used the funeral home our families had always used thinking they would be more help-I would also get in touch with an Elder lawyer now and get advice ahead of time. I am so sorry about your Mom-do take care.
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Ruiz - please keep in mind that if in the future you should ever need to place your mom on Medicaid the $$ in an account the is co-mingled (yours & hers) can be entirely viewed as her assets and could keep her from qualifying till it is spent down. Also if something should happen (like bills from an accident) and there is a debt with a judgement against you and/or your mom, the $$ in the account that is co-mingled can be attached or seized.

I know it seems simpler to do what you're doing but it could cost you in the long run.

If you're doing this to be off the grid, it really doesn't work. If they are getting
SS then they probably also getting Medicare. All that is constantly updated so a death notice happens within 48 hours. SS will do a claw-back on any payments sent after the month of death too. The banks are linked into the SS notices and will freeze the accounts that match.

Yes, if she truly has no assets, then you never need to worry about probate. But if there is anything out there (house, car, she is part owner of some family property or business even if it is from ages ago) that would require a transfer of title in order for the next person to have clean ownership, then you have to go thru probate for the transfer to happen.
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My mother gets Soc. Security and a small pension. Whatever savings she has (not a whole lot) I have it in my savings account. I withdraw money for her whenever she asks me. There's nothing to report in case of death and this savings will be used for her funeral and any other expenses.
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Yes, this is a good point. We don't think about these things at the time. I have a notebook with my husbands things and these are the kind of things I jot down so I won't forget when the time comes. Yes, it's up to God to decide all of this, not me. One more thing I forgot in my last post. I was on my grandfathers accounts as I signed his checks for him as he trouble. I did get him to write his checks when I could. The judge said that my uncle and Mom were next of kin and that was that! I was ONLY a granddaughter. So, I was only a granddaugher but I was the only one willing to take care of him at home as no one had any time for him as they were too busy with their own lives or didn't have the right accommondations or whatever excuse they could come up with. I enjoyed very much taking care of him and being with him daily. I will never feel that I didn't do my best (which he knew) and I didn't want to take money from him. He insisted that his SS check be mine every month. At that time not much but he felt he was paying his way. I usually spent it on him anyway without his knowledge. By the way, I am originally from northern CA too. This was the judges decision and I abided by it no matter how unfair it was. I think he got the feeling that I was out for money. Not so. I did this because I loved him, still do and nothing more. God will take care of me.
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If you are not on her account, you should not remove any funds other than those required specifically for her care. Your mother has the right to have a will and you may or not know of such. If you are the only relative, and there is no will, you will get whatever she has in all liklihood. If there is a will, your mother may have specified who she wants to get the money in the account. If you remove the money from the account, you might be interfering with your mother's wishes. However, the use of funds for your mother's care is entirely reasonable. Best to you and your mother.
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Yes good point regarding the death certificates. Order extras at the beginning! The funeral director will assist you in regards to what you will need them for - and they also will suggest getting extras. Excellent point!
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Hello again! One more thing. When your mom passes, there is a moment when you have to get death certificate ordered/mailed to you. BE SURE to order 10-20 of them!! They are free (at least here in Northern California) when you FIRST order them and they come all at once very quickly. If you order them later (and you will need them for an amazing variety of reasons for proof of death), the city/county takes weeks and charges $10.00 or more a copy.
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Hello!
All the advice is useful so far, but also consider, if your mother is coherent and able, to add the designation on the checking/bank account, "POD" which means "payable on death." It is free of charge, is revocable, and she can name any one person. It is sometimes called "the poor man's trust".
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I agree, also. My mom passed away two years ago, and my dad passed 4 months ago. We had talked will and power of attorney as am only, however we did nto get around 2 it. Dad was unable to communicate after surgery before death. I had to go through probate also, It is not fun, iti is a learning experience. Also the bill paying for any utilities should go into the executor(s) name(s) until a house is sold if theie is a house. You also need to notify the utilities/insurance, etc., of her death with a death certificate and the executrix forms. Have all mail coming to you if u r executrix or administrator. That part is the longest and hardest thus far. The insurance if any, takes forever to get and u have to keep after them. Keep everything estate wise together until everything is settled House sold, etc,., for over a year. I u r only or the administrator, u can put the money in your name and be responsible for it, If you have siblings you will have to take pains in being able to answer any questions regarding the money's whearabouts tothe siblings at any given time, and make a report to them after all is done...i know that because my dad was executor for his dad. It is a huge responsibility. I know u would rather have your mom back healthy, but...i understand your feelings, believe me I do. There have been many times I have wished I could ask my parens for help during this and I could not. Have people around you that u trust. That u could trust with your life, That is important as you are dealing with your mom's finances. If there is any doubt about trusting someone, never tell them anything....I hope this helps.
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Vandy, Sorry about your mom. My mom died just this April. It was so hard to imagine what life would be like without the hub of our family. Knowing she's in Heaven and finally not suffering has made ALL the difference to us. Mom was 83 years old when she died, but the last 46 years of her life was pain of some sort for her. We are upholding our dad as a family, and he's doing pretty good after 63 years of marriage. Sorry again.
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My mom had all her bank accounts with her name "or" my name. This helped while she was sick and when she died. I was paying her bills the last few years with her accounts (but because of the wording on the account I was able to transfer between her accounts when her SS and pension was deposited, I was able to cash in cds when she needed money for rehab stays, etc.), and when she died the accounts automatically were turned over to me. However, I'm an only child, mom trusted me also - so circumstances were very easy, I had no relatives to contend with unlike some of the horror stories I read on this site. Mom had a will (dad did also and everything automatically went to mom when he died - the accounts also read his name "or" her name "or" my name ) and on mom's passing everything automatically went to me - accounts, house, etc. because wording on accounts and deeds was set up that way (again my parents trusted me). No probate no will actually even necessary. Regarding the above post about the bank account being closed when she dies - well, I believe you may find that account closed immediately if only her name is on it. When I went to the bank after mom died to tell them to close her one open credit card (which she only used in an emergency) they told me that it was already closed as she was deceased. I asked how they knew that since I was just coming in less than a week after she died - their response "we're notified immediately of someone passing away in the event their accounts need to be frozen". So don't assume the account will still be open the next day even - - news travels fast! If your mom is on medicaid or possibly may have to go on medicaid, you have to account for every single penny of hers, so thinking you can just pull the money out of the account is not the answer. I know you said she is expected to die shortly - I don't know her circumstances, but I was called by two different doctors on two different occassions - 5 months apart telling me that mom would not make it through the night. The next day the social worker from the hospital called me and said she was going back to rehab. Both times I argued that they must be talking about the wrong person because the night before the doctor said she wouldn't make it. No they were right! She did a 360 degree turnaround twice. At the end while in the ER the doctor told me she wouldn't make it through the night (she developed a hole in her colon and poisons were leaking into her blood and all her organs). Two other drs. confirmed that and said she would last a few hours at the most. She was transferred to Hospice as the hospital told me she couldn't stay there because hospitals "are only for people that will get better". Anyway she died 4 days later! And that was withholding all food and water. So what I'm trying to tell you is no one knows - except God - when the persons time is up. That being said, be very careful on what you do with her account at this point. It could cause you more problems in the end if you take the money out now.
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If your Mom has a Living Trust etc. you should have no problem with probate. I went thru a terrible experiene with my grandfather many years ago. Had a will and never signed it. Was still sittint in the attorney's office. My Mother and uncle were on things immediately after his death. This was very hurtful and he had lived with me for some time before going to the NH. They never visited etc. but were always full of advise. I begged him to do something and his answer was always "you know what I want done." I kept telling him it had to be in writing and signed. So, when he passed everything was frozen although I did get a very small account before things got frozen. The judge decided that because they were his children that they should have it all and divided equally and all the grandchildren including me were not included.

This all happened many years ago and I do try not to think about it but when someone has the same situation I do try to pass my experience along. Good or bad so you can decide to do what you wish. This has also split our small family apart and no one knows where I am or how I am and doesn't really care. I still love my Mom very much, think of her often. She will be 90 in Sept. if she is still alive. I turn 70 in a couple of weeks. This really hurts and the hurt has really never gone away. But, I have my life, a good husband who is not well but I am happy even having to care for him. It was their choice to do what they did and since I didn't have a lot of money and didn't want to use grandpa's, which would not have been right anyway, if I had gotten any to pay attorney's. I had also just gone thru a divorce and used some of my funds for that. I hope they are living well and are happy. I really don't think they are any happier than I and are living comfortably and healthy with the added funds. My uncle already had quite a bit and my Mom didn't have much as my Dad passed at an early age. Grandpa did have a good sized estate. So, I guess you could add us as another dysfunctional family because of "money."
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Elder law attorneys who are members of the AARP Legal Services Network will meet you for 45 minutes and advise you for free. Have your factual information in your hands when you go in: copies of POA, Will, bank statements.
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IGLOO is exactly correct....been there, done that (PROBATE I MEAN) and it is NOT pretty. My entire family does not speak to me as they are angry the "water faucet" has been turned off so I can pay for HER CARE..it is HER money.
They called me bipolar, sick, a thief, and on and on..I was almost crying. The Judge saw through all of them, appointed me conservator and I have done a kick-ass job.
I am on my moms credit union account as POD. The rest will pay off any bills (her annuities) and anything left is in an educational trust she literally pissed away paying my 55 year old sisters rent since 2002...plus, she got an $18,000.00 car, and $10,500.00 for every birthday....I got $100.00 for mine. The grandchildren that are left will never see the educational money...the Red Lobster got it along with Florida movie theaters my sister has stock in....she uses "my life stinks" to extort money from my mother...not anymore. I am in charge and she is CUT OFF, by the Probate Judge...he knows all about her!
I wish I belonged to a family that would treat me nice....my husband and son get it, and they stand by me 100%. My son and his cousins have nothing to do with each other....calling your mom a thief is not the way to bond with family.
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I've been executrix for two estates & I'm NOT an attorney but in going back & forth to probate court have learned quite a bit.

Here are my thoughts:
1. If your mom has a true estate - that is she has assets that legally will need a change of title or ownership in order for people named in her will to get, like a home or a car or stocks, then you will need to go thru probate. Probate costs money to do - about 3 - 5% of what the estate is.

2. BUT if mom owns nothing - no house, no car - she was just on Social Security or SS and a small retirement, there is no real need to do probate. So IF all she has is those coming in monthly and maybe a small savings in the bank, then go and get the money out before she dies and the account gets frozen and you have to go thru probate. If you are on the account as a POD (paid on death) the money will go to you once she dies but you will need to go with a death certificate in order for this to happen. This can take time.

If you are the only relative, there will be nobody to challenge what you do. Don't worry about it. Use the money for her funeral, give some to a charity that mom liked (Humane Society, Leukemia, whatever), arrange for flowers placed on the grave every month. If you want to pay off her bills with it, then do that.

I can remember being in probate court and there would be families there for a hearing over bank accounts with just a few thousand dollars in them and the nasty level of fighting going on over it. Just ugly. If you can avoid it, do so. Good luck.
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Who is the executor named in the will? Could pay for funeral costs/burial. That is legal.
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Does she own a lot of money? I'm not sure that pulling out now - if she will die soon - will matter anyway. But you maybe should check with the bank, first, and then check with an elder law attorney, if your mom owes money. If you are only worried about the account being closed, just ask your bank. I don't think it would be, but you should check.
Good luck,
Carol
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